More realistic trading values

Recently, I've been receiving more complaints about the trading values returned by my trade calculator on CastleEmpireSim.com

The numbers used for this tool have been taken from various places around the internet including the list Audrey posted here in the forums (http://forum.castleempireonline.com/...Trading-Values), as well as a couple of other sources that have posted trade values.

The problem that most people are complaining about is that the values are a good baseline to start with, but rarely reflect what is actually being traded for in the trade tab. One of the reasons for this, is that the values tend to change with the game economy, and with supply and demand, so will NEVER be 100% accurate. About the only way I would ever be able to make it THAT accurate is to tie directly into the trade tab and monitor it. However, to do so is a violation of the game's TOS, so until I manage to get permission from BlueByte and UbiSoft, I'm stuck with having to estimate.

To this end, I've been working on trying to come up with a list of some more reasonable trade Ratios, which I will post here. Please take a few moments to look it over and let me know (by replying here) if something needs to be adjusted. I will try to review this forum post, and update the values regularly. Once everyone seems to agree (for the moment) on what values something is trading for, I will make changes to the Online Trade Calculator to reflect this list. Because it is such a valuable commodity, I am targeting everything against Gold coins. Also, I realize that a few items are missing. This is because I haven't yet gotten good enough numbers to supply these yet.

Here's what and have come up with so far:


http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_wood.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 2

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_planks.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 2

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_stone.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 2

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_fish.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 2

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coal.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 10

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_bronze_ore.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 10

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_bronze.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 12

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_tools.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 19

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_water.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 1

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_wheat.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 6

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_beer.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 10

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_flour.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 8

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_bread.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 14

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/i...onze_sword.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 26

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_real_wood.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 8

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_real_planks.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 21

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_iron_ore.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 27

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_iron.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 32

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_steel.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 50

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_gold_ore.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 90

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_gold.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 130

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_marble.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 22

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_meat.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 14

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_sausage.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 36

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_horse.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 29

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/i...on_sword_2.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 164

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_steel_sword.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 308

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_longbow.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 68


http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_exotic_wood.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 262

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/i...tic_planks.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 262

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_granite.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 387

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_mapfrag.png 1 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 4

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_pumpkin.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 160

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_egg.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 400

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_present.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 400


EDIT 1/25/2012: I have finished averaging everything that I have up to this point. The numbers posted above reflect these changes, and I think they are starting to look a bit more like what we actually use. For some of the ones that I had questions about (for example I thought fir Logs might be too high), I tried posting trades in the game. To my surprise, I received quite a few trades, so it looks like they might be pretty accurate baselines.

Great list, the only one that sticks out to me (besides the event items wich are always in flux) would be the marble, I regularly see it for around 20 gold per 400.

Yeah, I'm still working on the numbers, and it seems like Marble just dropped through the floor recently. However, this is EXACTLY why I'm wanting to get feedback on what people are currently trading things for. If I can manage to get enough response here, I'll try to make the changes live this weekend with adjusted values. I'll still leave the old values available to use, but I'll use these by default...

I'm going to try to keep this list updated once a week, and if I don't get any major complaints about values, I'll update the Trade Calculator with these values a day or 2 afterwards. The hard part is trying to determine if the values in the Game are just someone offloading a bunch of resources to make some quick coins, or if it is a sustainable change that will continue at that price over time.

This is why I'm opening it up for discussion among everyone.

-Drax

CEO currency = gold coins. You can buy anything with gold coins. Well, almost anything.. not a castle or a collapsed wall. I have lots of gargoyles for adoption :D

New players, just be cautious of spending gold coins for resources. You will need gold coins for recruiting specialists from the tavern & upgrading buildings.

Marble and hardwood planks are consumed like wildfire until you build up all your licenses and upgrade to about level 3; then you slow down tremendously.

Well, I'm not saying that all trades should be DONE in gold coins, I'm just trying to fix the values of the resources to gold coins. Once I do that, you will be able to use the Ratios to trade anything to anything.

Mainly, i'm just trying to make sure that these numbers look right before I add them into the Trade Calculator. (In other words, speak now, or forever hold your peace! ...Well, at least until i do the next round of changes. :) )

Where is iron ore? Where are hardwood logs?

I think these days the values of coins went up. not only marble seems to drop, lately, horses can also be seen around at 400 per 25. I try to sell at 35-40 but only receive 1 or 2. and breads see 400 for 15 or so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bombcar

Where is iron ore? Where are hardwood logs?

---

I'm waiting to gather more info on these. If you have suggestions, please post them.

This is just what i've seen, feel free to correct.

Fir Logs 1-3
Fish 1-3
Coal 8-12
Tools 20-30
Beer 10-15
Bread 15-20
Bronze Swords 25-35
Marble 20-30
Horses 25-35
Iron Swords 140-200
Iron Ore 30-40

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elriond

This is just what i've seen, feel free to correct.

Fir Logs 1-3
Fish 1-3
Coal 8-12
Tools 20-30
Beer 10-15
Bread 15-20
Bronze Swords 25-35
Marble 20-30
Horses 25-35
Iron Swords 140-200
Iron Ore 30-40

---

I agree with most of these, though coal goes for around 15-20 and bread only 12-15. That is what I have luck with on the trade tab :)

These numbers seem to be more accurate than that calculator, which is way off on most resources. Although these numbers are still significantly out of whack.

Although a calculator might be a reasonably useful tool for a brand new player who really hasn't had time to get a feel for prices, there are many reasons why it just isn't all that accurate or useful for the vast majority of players.

Prices will change based on supply & demand. If a hundred more people are trying to sell coal than are trying to buy coal, its going to drive the price way down, and likewise if a hundred more people are trying to buy coal than are trying to sell coal, its going to drive the price way up. The supply and demand of each resource is constantly changing. You will see a wide variation in trading prices during the off hours (appx 2am-7am eastern) and a very small variation on trading prices during peak hours (i.e. 5pm-10pm eastern).

While you might be able to buy coal at 7 coins pretty easily during peak hours, you might have to settle for 12 coins during off hours.....it all depends....but each resource has a very wide range of prices during the day, and trying to pin down an "average" really isn't all that useful. A min and max value might be a little more useful.


Any trading values would need to be updated quite regularly, and ideally be based on actual trading prices, as reported by the people running the game. I'm sure it wouldn't be very hard for them to produce various realtime trading figures for us, such as, average, median, min, max, std deviation, etc. Obviously this isn't going to be high on their list of priorities, but without these figures, a trading calculator really isn't all that useful in my opinion. At the very least a simple trading log download available to the userbase that we could plug into a spreadsheet to get these values ourselves should be available already as far as I'm concerned.

Listing min and max trading values from one resource compared to gold coins is no big deal, but listing 2 different resources with 2 different sets of mins and max's will produce a very wide range of prices....so again this won't really be very accurate.

Many of those numbers listed here are out by 50%-300% I'm sure some trades do occur at the prices listed, but in many cases it would be a very very small percentage of them are trading at or near those prices.

Obviously some of us have better connections than others for getting certain resources at good prices, so some of these prices are going to be out of whack as well, but assuming I am not desperate to buy or sell any particular resource, these would be my personal min and max prices:

Firwood logs 2 - 3
Firwood planks 2 - 3
Stones 2 - 3
Fish 2-4
Map Fragments 3 - 5
Presents 1 - 1
Coal 6 - 9
Copper 8 - 15
Bronze 10 - 15
Tools 15 - 18
Water 1 - 1
Wheat 5 - 7
Beer 8 - 12
Flour 7 - 9
Bread 12 - 15
Bronze swords 20 - 25
Bows 10 - 15
Hardwood logs 6 - 10
Hardwood planks 17 - 21
iron ore 23 - 30
iron bars 30 - 40
steel bars 60 - 80
gold ore 80 - 100
gold bars 100 - 125
marble 18 - 21
meat 10 - 18
sausages 30 - 40
horses 20 - 23
iron swords 130 - 160
steel swords 285 - 325
long bows 55 - 75
exotic wood 250 - 275
exotic planks 250 - 275
granite 350 - 425

These prices loot great. They are almost identical to mine. except the marble and HWplanks which i buy 10-15g per stack Here are my revisions i trade for all day every day (give or take)

Firwood logs 2 - 3
Firwood planks 2 - 3
Stones 2 - 3
Fish 2-4
Map Fragments 3 - 5
Presents 1 - 1
Coal 6 - 9
Copper 8 - 15
Bronze 10 - 15
Tools 15 - 18
Water 1 - 1
Wheat 5 - 7
Beer 7 - 8
Flour 7 - 9
Bread 9 - 13
Bronze swords 20 - 25
Bows 10 - 15
Hardwood logs 6 - 10
Hardwood planks 10-15
iron ore 15 - 20
iron bars 25 - 35
steel bars 40 - 60
gold ore 80 - 100
gold bars 100 - 125
marble 10-15
meat 10 - 18
sausages 30 - 40
horses 20 - 23
iron swords 130 - 160
steel swords 285 - 325
long bows 55 - 75
exotic wood 250 - 275
exotic planks 250 - 275
granite 350 - 425

its just too unrealistic to make these expectations...

Bread for instance has more value to someone that runs adventures on a daily basis than someone who doesn't. All I see in any of these posts

My personal intrests = these prices

I cant speak for the others, but I am posting the prices that I pay regularly and/or sell for....if I had an agenda, they would look alot more like the prices in the calculator which are severely distorted from reality.

Talar --- I WANT YOUR MARBLE CONNECTION!! :-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aerose

its just too unrealistic to make these expectations...

Bread for instance has more value to someone that runs adventures on a daily basis than someone who doesn't. All I see in any of these posts

My personal intrests = these prices

---

/signed.

Thanks for all the feedback. I will probably be taking these numbers along with what I already have and averaging them to get the final numbers.

I agree that the calculator can NEVER be right for everyone, and will go out of date as supply/demand fluxuates.

Also, as new servers come online, the numbers will be different for each server since new servers have a higher supply/demand for Fir/Stone than older servers which will be geared more towards HW/Marble or Exotic/Granite.

Remember that these numbers are for guidelines only. But I REALLY appreciate the feedback. Please keep it coming as I continue to refine this. Also, I wasn't able to make the changes yet to the Simulator due to some personal issues that came up this weekend, but I will try to as soon as possible. Also, I will probably be adding a little flexibility into the "Good/Bad/Even" trade algorithms that will allow for a certain % of "flexibility" in the trade before it considers it a "good" or "bad" trade. You have to realize that the Trade Calculator was written in less than 2 hours, and needs some re-work.

-Draxxon

First off, thanks for putting the calc together and working to keep it useful. I just started playing this game 2-3 days ago, so I can tell you the calc gave me a good baseline to start with when evaluating a trade. However, having spent too many hours already waiting for my settlement to grow, I have noticed I can get things cheaper than what the calc states.

For example, I've only bought bronze sword stacks twice. I offered 15 g/st for 400 each time and got a trade request without having to repost. Also, tools are worth a lot more than hard wood or marble. I often trade 150-200 tools for a stack of HW or marble. I do not always get requests for these trades, but enough times for me to rely on them as a price to trade around.

I agree with logaperc's post above. The calc provides a good feel for prices and would be well suited to provide a min/max and possibly an estimated median. As long as the trade system works more like a market to peddle your wares than an auction house, there will be a good amount of price volatility and deal finding.

Once (if) an auction house goes in, prices will most likely revolve around a fixed point, depending on how long you get to put something up for auction and if there is a fee. The longer you can place an auction the more people get to see what other people are paying/charging. This can also lead to an increased sense of supply, and while it won't guarantee deflation, it will make it more competitive which can lead to price wars. Before you plan too far ahead with the calculator, keep in mind if/when the devs revamp the system, it may alter the utility of the calculator. Basing the calc on a specific ratio works better with an auction house setup. A marketplace system (the current one) benefits more from a min/max estimate.

Lastly, once they raise the limit of goods per tradeable stack, it may affect pricing. Someone trying to dump 4000 bread versus 400 bread in one trade might alter the ratios for what they want in return because it reduces the amount of work they have to do to move that many goods.

And again, thanks for your work! :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aerose

its just too unrealistic to make these expectations...

All I see in any of these posts

My personal intrests = these prices

---

Aerose, this is exactly why I've opened this up to the community at large. If you have complaints about these prices, post your own list of prices. If they are reasonable, I will try to work them in as well. Right now, I'm pulling averages of the reasonable prices that have been posted, so as to get a more realistic list.

I have updated the Site with the updated values listed in the 1st post. Take a look and see if you agree for the moment, I will be collecting a 2nd round of data to refine these numbers over the next week or so.

-Draxxon

i have found, iron swords, go for 90-110

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fortoom

Lastly, once they raise the limit of goods per tradeable stack, it may affect pricing. Someone trying to dump 4000 bread versus 400 bread in one trade might alter the ratios for what they want in return because it reduces the amount of work they have to do to move that many goods.

---

I skimmed through the other posts, and as far as I could tell, everyone discounted the influence of idiocy. Fortoom incorporates a slight sense of it in his post- those looking to move large quantities often do so at a lower price.
(While being able to trade larger quantities will be very nice, I don't even want to know what it's going to do to the market... I expect a near collapse of the game economy. I hope I'm wrong.)

Unfortunately, there are a growing number of idiots trying to outdo each other to get their materials sold. Let's look at the recent price fluctuations in brew as an example. Because of the friary, most people now make an overabundance of the stuff, and the price is dropping. It was to be expected. However, when you completely bottom out your prices to move inventory, you're hurting the entire community. One foolish seller doesn't usually influence the market long term. A few, though, can have quite the negative impact.
Most people sell their brew at 10gc a stack right now. Undercutters do it for 9 or 8. Then there are the idiots selling it at 7 or less because they have zero patience. The issue? JoeBob sees that brew can be bought for 6gc a stack now. So JoeBob won't buy it any longer for the going rate of 9 or 10. Magnified, this brings down the market price.

I know, nothing can be done about foolish selling. But it's yet another reason, or aspect of supply/demand, that can't be accounted for in a program.

Thanks though, for all your hard work!

Fir Planks: 6
Coal: 6-8
HWP: 10-15
Iron Ore: 21-25
Horses 15-20
Iron swords: 100
Steel Swords: 200
LB: 40-50
EWL: 110
EWP: 150
Granite 400
Map Frag: 5
These are the prices I have been seeing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Draxxon

Recently, I've been receiving more complaints about the trading values returned by my trade calculator on CastleEmpireSim.com

The numbers used for this tool have been taken from various places around the internet including the list Audrey posted here in the forums (http://forum.castleempireonline.com/...Trading-Values), as well as a couple of other sources that have posted trade values.

The problem that most people are complaining about is that the values are a good baseline to start with, but rarely reflect what is actually being traded for in the trade tab. One of the reasons for this, is that the values tend to change with the game economy, and with supply and demand, so will NEVER be 100% accurate. About the only way I would ever be able to make it THAT accurate is to tie directly into the trade tab and monitor it. However, to do so is a violation of the game's TOS, so until I manage to get permission from BlueByte and UbiSoft, I'm stuck with having to estimate.

To this end, I've been working on trying to come up with a list of some more reasonable trade Ratios, which I will post here. Please take a few moments to look it over and let me know (by replying here) if something needs to be adjusted. I will try to review this forum post, and update the values regularly. Once everyone seems to agree (for the moment) on what values something is trading for, I will make changes to the Online Trade Calculator to reflect this list. Because it is such a valuable commodity, I am targeting everything against Gold coins. Also, I realize that a few items are missing. This is because I haven't yet gotten good enough numbers to supply these yet.

Here's what and have come up with so far:


http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_wood.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 2

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_planks.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 2

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_stone.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 2

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_fish.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 2

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coal.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 10

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_bronze_ore.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 10

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_bronze.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 12

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_tools.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 19

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_water.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 1

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_wheat.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 6

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_beer.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 10

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_flour.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 8

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_bread.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 14

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/i...onze_sword.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 26

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_real_wood.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 8

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_real_planks.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 21

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_iron_ore.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 27

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_iron.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 32

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_steel.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 50

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_gold_ore.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 90

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_gold.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 130

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_marble.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 22

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_meat.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 14

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_sausage.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 36

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_horse.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 29

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/i...on_sword_2.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 164

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_steel_sword.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 308

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_longbow.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 68


http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_exotic_wood.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 262

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/i...tic_planks.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 262

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_granite.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 387

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_mapfrag.png 1 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 4

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_pumpkin.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 160

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_egg.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 400

http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_present.png 400 : http://castleempiresim.com/icn/res/icon_coins.png 400


EDIT 1/25/2012: I have finished averaging everything that I have up to this point. The numbers posted above reflect these changes, and I think they are starting to look a bit more like what we actually use. For some of the ones that I had questions about (for example I thought fir Logs might be too high), I tried posting trades in the game. To my surprise, I received quite a few trades, so it looks like they might be pretty accurate baselines.

---

whoever is buying fir planks at 6gc please see me and i will sell you all you want at 5gc lol

RecklessRue: That's supply and demand. The supply has increased. The going rate is no longer 9 to 10.