Enemy Camp Destruction Times

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10-21-12 07:21 am
Lamosos

Fist of all, thank you for this post.
A lot of it has come as quite a revelation to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lesson

The amount of damage a camp can sustain before destruction is as follows (derived emperically):

Code:

Building Damage Bandit camp 250 Watchtower 1000 Reinforced T. 1500 Stone tower 2000 White castle 2000 Witch tower 2000 Bone church 2000 Dark castle 2000

Now, are these numbers mostly a result of your personal testing or do they come from the combat sim?
10-21-12 08:15 am
Wimpy

Really great work guys. Thanks from us dummys.
10-21-12 03:16 pm
Lesson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamosos

Fist of all, thank you for this post.
A lot of it has come as quite a revelation to me.

Now, are these numbers mostly a result of your personal testing or do they come from the combat sim?

I verified timing on quite a few combinations personally, after that it was mostly sampling sim checks. And there could be other factors involved behind the scenes that cannot really be observed, but I think this should be pretty close. And I only personally verified results against regular camps and Witch Towers, Dark Castles and White Castles. I did not check the numbers versus the Watchtowers and Reinforced.

I am very confident that the unit type only needs to be 'represented' to contribute to the building destruction, and that Cannons deal double their Damage.

Asipak's numbers also seem to assume Archers (Bowmen, Longbowman and Crossbowman) get an accuracy bonus for attacking a Tower (I had always assumed the bonus only applied to the units within the tower) so that they would always hit for their max damage. I have NOT verified if this is correct... so if you are seeing longer actual destruction times when using Archers then Asipak's Sim is indicating, this might be the reason.

Definately test the different scenerios yourself, but you should have a good starting point now.
10-21-12 05:47 pm
xethilus

seams the longest battles are against archer tower which are wiped out buy calv. in the first round, go figure
10-21-12 05:58 pm
Lamosos

Yea, no doubt.
As far as Asipak is concerned, it seems like he's following a similar concept to what you have described.
But his numbers are really hard to judge, since we haven't seen the actual math behind them.
Although I can say with confidence that those numbers are off, I have absolutely no idea where the errors are.
On a side note, I find it extremely strange that BB wouldn't just release this information.
What are they afraid of, that we block too many camps?
Who cares if its an undocumented feature?
Who cares if it didn't exactly turn out the way it was planned?
It's a good thing, it makes the game more interesting, so suck it up and embrace it!
10-21-12 06:01 pm
Lamosos

Quote:

Originally Posted by xethilus

seams the longest battles are against archer tower which are wiped out buy calv. in the first round, go figure

Well, like its been said a few posts above, towers have more HP than regular camps, and cav does the least amount of damage of all the troops, so do the math :)
10-22-12 06:56 am
Asipak

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lesson

Since i was asked about this recently, and no one else has taken the time to explain how the camp destruction works, I thought I would take a stab at it.

This description was derivied from empirical data I gathered in actual battles and many iterations of Asipak's Sim.

The destruction of a camp is the additional amount of time needed to destroy a camp after you have defeated the enemy that occupied it. It is in addition to the actual battle where you defeated the camp, and is represented by the 'Health Bar' that appears when the inital winning battle is over. The amount of time needed to destroy the camp is calculated the same way as the Battle itself: 20 seconds per round (10 seconds for fast generals like Vet, Grim and BHG). Side Note: This addtional camp destruction time is why it normally is better to have to Winning Advanced Block versus a losing one; Winning in 5 rounds will last just as long as losing in 7 rounds assuming you are not doing something silly like blocking with Cannons.

The number of Rounds it takes to destroy a camp is determined in much the same way as the battle was calculated and is dependent on the camp type and the unit type(s) originally sent to the battle.

The amount of damage a camp can sustain before destruction is as follows (derived emperically):

Code:

Building Damage Bandit camp 250 Watchtower 1000 Reinforced T. 1500 Stone tower 2000 White castle 2000 Witch tower 2000 Bone church 2000 Dark castle 2000

Now comes the important part: The amount of damage you can inflict per round is entirely dependent on the unit types represented in the actual battle. They do not have to be alive at the end of the battle to help with the destruction of the building, they just had to be a part of the garrison assignment at the start of the battle. It also does not matter how many are included to represent; as far as the building destruction is concerned, sending 1 cannon is the same as sending 100. You'll see a few examples of this tactic used in some of my guides (mostly Roaring Bull), where I have a mix of unit types being required to take the towers down faster.

Lesson Guides

So as an example:

Suppose you win a battle using your Vet general against some camp, and you had sent 100R and 150K(Cannons). Each round, you would hit between 255 and 390 in damage based on the following Unit Types that are represented:

Recruit (15-30)
Cannon (120-240) * remember cannons get double the effective damage against buildings
General (120)

So in this case a regular Camp is only going to last 1 round and a Dark Castle or Witch Tower 6-7 rounds depending on your accuracy rolls.

Why is all this important?

If, in this same example you were to replace 3 of those recruits (or cannons) with a Militia, a Soldier and an Elite, suddenly you are hitting for 60-120 additonal damage each round on the building. Now that Witch Tower will only last 4-5 Rounds.. you just shaved 20 seconds off your potential destruction time so that Advanced Block may work after all!

-Lesson

Nothing to add here. It's completely correct.

Quote:

Asipak's numbers also seem to assume Archers (Bowmen, Longbowman and Crossbowman) get an accuracy bonus for attacking a Tower (I had always assumed the bonus only applied to the units within the tower) so that they would always hit for their max damage. I have NOT verified if this is correct...

That isn't correct. Why do you think so?
10-22-12 08:56 am
Sanii

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asipak

Nothing to add here. It's completely correct.

That isn't correct. Why do you think so?

I think this has to do with something he and I were discussing yesterday. We were discussing the upper right dark castle on BK and a combination he had that did not seem to calc out the same for destruction time as the sim.

The combination was 1r 22m 1s 1c 110b 1lb 114a

Link for sim results:
http://settlersonlinesimulator.com/d...=15#sim-result

The sim shows 5-6 rounds for distruction but if you manually add the hit points for all the troop types per round as follows:

recruit = 15 - 30 hit
militia = 20 - 40 hit
soldier = 20 - 40 hit
calv = 5 - 10 hit
bow = 20 - 40 hit
lbow = 30 - 60 hit
xbow = 45 - 90 hit
gen = 120 hit

You get - Hit point range per round = 275 - 430

If a Dark Castle takes 2000 hit points for destruction then

Min Destruction Rounds = 2000 / 430 hit per round = 4.65 = 5 rnds (which sim has)

Max Destruction Rounds = 2000 / 275 hit per round = 7.27 = 8 rnds (sim shows 6 instead of 8)

I'm hoping my above info of 2k and hit point valuations is correct but I believe the question here is the sim showing range of 5-6 destruction rounds rather than 5-8 rnds etc.

So do the Bow, Lbow and Xbow minimum hit points get a bonus each round against castles etc? If so, and the mins doubled, that would add 95 hit points to each round causing the max number of destruction rounds to be 6 as the sim states.

I think that is the question and point because I believe he saw the destruction of the Dark Castle take longer than the max of 6 rounds that the sim shows.

So the bottom line is either my info somewhere is flawed or it's something else.
10-22-12 09:48 am
Lesson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asipak

Nothing to add here. It's completely correct.

That isn't correct. Why do you think so?

Because it was a possible explaination as to why your min-max calculations were not coinciding with mine when I was trying figure out why an example I had with Archers in the mix did not seem to jive with yours. But since then I started looking at other examples and your results are not matching with what I was expecting, so I am now assuming some of my basic assumptions must be incorrect.

For example: If I calculate a Tower destruction with a Garrison of all soldiers, with the assumptions I made, I have to following:

Each round I would do the following in dmg to the building:

Soldier type (20-40)
General (120)

So I am looking at 140-160 in damage each round.

Your sim indicates a range of 13-14 rounds to destroy the tower.

However, if I fail on my accuracy rolls everytime, I only get 14 * 140 damage for a total of 1960 in damage which would mean it would take another round to take out the tower IF 2000 is the correct amount of Health and my expected damage per round is correct.

So my question is: for your sim, what is your expected damage per unit type? What is the amount of Health you are using for the tower?

I certainly didn't do enough self tests to be absolutely confident in my assumptions, so I would love to know what numbers your are using for your sim, as well how you determined them.
10-22-12 09:51 am
Asipak

Please calc the average damage of your units.

Code:

2000 / 275

implies that you will have 8 rounds with the worst case. That's very unlikely.

[edit]

Okay, you've edited your posting, but the meaning is the same. You've anticipated the worst case.

Ahhh... sorry, it's another posting.

Quote:

What is the amount of Health you are using for the tower?

Your values are correct.

I'm off now. I'll answer later or tomorrow.

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