Hello Everyone
Please feel free to give me you're Feedback on the Science system.
I like it.. That's all I can say about it rofl.. Only sad part is the fact they changed a few things, but I suppose its okay maybe.
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Hello Everyone
Please feel free to give me you're Feedback on the Science system.
I like it.. That's all I can say about it rofl.. Only sad part is the fact they changed a few things, but I suppose its okay maybe.
I'm happy about new content. Over all its cool. But so far only thing I'm disappointed with is the "specialization" of the geos. I was under the impression that you could specialize each one to be specific; ie: a gold geo, marble geo, copper geo, and so forth. But with how many books are needed in lower levels to get to higher specialties, you are basically filling up the whole tree. Meaning to get a geo that you want only for gold, to get up to "quality gold mineshafts" you need 28 total books including that ability. Only 9 books go to gold specific abilities so you need 19 books outside the "specialty" you want that geo to be.
Don't get me wrong, I'm way happy to be able to get better abilities on the geos (more so on explorers and gens down line), but the way it was described and worded made it sound as though you could make pretty specific specialized geos and that isn't the case.
I was shocked with the new production times and the resources needed to build books. No where near the test server.
I have resigned myself to being underwhelmed.
Sticking this thread. Please do share your feedback about the new Science System in a constructive and detailed manner so I can share it with Blue Byte. :)
I have no idea how I'm going to be able to produce enough gold to make a codex....
1200/12hrs. seems a bit much for my level....
This morning's release was very disappointing. The costs on the test server were at least reasonable (100 paper and 50 letter/fitting/etc.), but the updated costs this morning are just ridiculous. Just take a look at the numbers for maximizing one geologist:
Creating the total of 31 manuscripts, 21 tomes, and 11 codex to maximize one geologist with a level 5 bookbinder will take:
31*(12 hours) + 21*(14.5 hours) + 11*(17 hours) = 863.5 hours = ~36 days
For materials needed (consider the buildings buffed at all times) the needed resources are:
Exotic Logs: (11 codex) * (250 adv paper per codex) * (6 exo logs per 2 adv paper) = 8,250 exotic logs
Titanium ore: (11 codex) * (200 fittings per codex) * (4 titan ore per 2 fittings) = 4,400 titanium ore
I have 8 geologists. It will take me, at a minimum, 288 days (or nearly 10 months), 66,000 exotic logs, and 35,200 titanium ore to actually make all of my geologists worthwhile. I was quite intrigued by the science system, but now realize that there is no way that it can ever be realistically useful or cost-effective. I'll go ahead and assume the costs of enhancing explorers and generals will be similar, which means in about 2 and half years I will have actually have some decent upgraded specialists. Keep in mind this is if I am also playing the game 24/7 keeping my bookbinder running with no downtime (which I am not).
The bookbinder times are at least twice as long as what I would deem a "reasonable" time. Two weeks should be a maximum for fully upgrading a specialist, IMO. Not to mention the absurd cost of resources and buffs needed to keep the production chains going. This was a great idea and exciting new feature, but it seems the developers are too disconnected to what playing this game actually entails.
My 2 cents.
-Stall
Aside from the costs ...
The Bookbinder needs a queue!
This was certainly expressed in the test server and completely ignored.
I don't understand why it does not operate like the provisions house and the barracks.
And looking at Stalldors numbers ... ouch, that is insane.
I think the idea for the skills was interesting but its really not ready for live play yet and a lot of what is here was brought up in the test forum as well.
The queue was requested many times on the test server.
They are not planning to add a queue.
http://forum.tsotesting.com/threads/...ll=1#post18853
Stalldor - your math does not include the increasing cost of producing the books.
After each 10 books produced, the cost increases 10%.
http://forum.tsotesting.com/threads/...of-manuscripts
This I was unaware of. Was this how it was on the test server? I only made a couple books there and did not get to 10. It will be very unfortunate if this "feature" made it into Zeus especially after the costs were already raised so dramatically.Quote:
Originally Posted by map42
That is how it is supposed to work on the live servers. The times and quantities were reduced to speed up testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stalldor
Some of the later posts in the test server forum are about the 10% increases.
Since they gave us books to speed up testing even more, not many people made very many books.
http://forum.tsotesting.com/threads/...of-manuscripts
Well, I totally understand what your saying. Naming the Specialist is awesome. I think I might call my one Veteran General Super Mario Hero!..Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcain
rofl.. but, You are right and Geologist is just the first set. Explorers and Generals are next I hope.
Same here yo! I was like... Dog! WTH!!... What is this yo ya!... (lol)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimpy
Oh. Well. Thank you.. I couldn't resist. I waited for months.. Now I sense its out. I want to here on everyone's feedback for the Science System.. I couldn't take it anymore... hehehehe :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_Effiluna
I was truly excited about it, while playing on the test server, but a lot of that was probably enhanced by the fact that I didn't really* have to produce the various books. It is a LOT LESS reasonable once you look at everything you need to do to "train" each Geo.
And, maybe because of the way I was able to just boost all my geos on the test server, I'm a lot less* excited because of all the costs involved. I probably won't upgrade more than one of mine because of the costs.
Couldn't agree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stalldor
1. I have 10 geologists, I thought I would train them all, but I will train just one of them (to level 4 max) . There's no need to train more.
2. The skills aren't worth the resources. For example how can anyone name 25 marble "a treausre", come on. For me (50) it's an insult (the same applies to daily login rewards). So it looks, like the science system totally neglects players on higher levels.
3. I would have to spend thousands of exotic wood and titanium ore (not to mention the time) to be able to find 100 more gold ore (that would give me additional 4 hrs of mining gold in 5th level gold mine). Well, no, thank you.
4. As for the queue. I don't think that a queue could be effective (or necessary) with these production times. But I'm sure that a separate production line for each type of book could be useful.
5. Given the fact that the cost at the bookbinder is increasing every 10 books, I think many people will be very disappointed and deterred from using the science system, also due to the time they have to wait for the books.
So generally in my opinion, the science system was promising to be revolutionary, but...
Well, I ignored the " crisis quests" and I think I will be ignoring this also, or at least until it is a more viable system. Would have preferred a raise in the level cap instead.
excited - yes
disappointed - yes
bookbinder needs a que
bookbinder needs a time adjustment
bookbinder needs a MAJOR buff
resource costs are fine - whatcha gonna do with them resources anyway?
Agreed, the resources are costly, but manageable. The bookbinder is the problem. It needs a queue and realistic production times.Quote:
Originally Posted by spudseq
Its great they are trying with new content and is little useful to higher levels. (i'm mostly waiting for the gens and explorers when I can actually benefit from it) However, There really needs to be a que for the books so don't have to come back all the time to start a new one. And what POSSIBLE purpose could there be for increasing cost for the books after 10? And does this mean once the gens and explorers finally come? Are we going to have to try and start their trees with already increased book cost?
That is my understanding of their intent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcain
It would be nice if we could make the bookbinder glue buffs in the provision house.... out of water and horses.
the science system is a good idea and just needs some tweaking. The times and cost of resources is fine if thats what they want to set it at. But increasing resource cost serves no purpose other than to upset players. And the buff is pointless if there is no queue.
Buff and queue. Could not agree more. This two what we need.
thanks again you useless bunch of developers for giving us a system that is NOT economically sound and for also giving me a level 50 player quests i CAN NOT complete as i am to high in level BB needs new developers and programmers if this game is going to last
The glue without a queue is almost worthless.
Keep in mind that the developers are the parents of TSO. As in real life if you want someting from the parents you never tell them their child in not only stupid but also ugly.
its fun to have one more thing to poke. it doesn't really matter for lvl50s tho, probably gradually upgrading em as you lvl up and maybe even earning xp from it makes more sence
Earing xp from the Science system... not really.Quote:
Originally Posted by barenski
Just like the Crisis quest, the return on investment of time, effort, resources is no where NEAR reasonable.
Any of you that want to max out your binder, keep it buffed 24X7 for a year to level up a single geo . . . I hope you have a great time.
Watching paint dry would be more fulfilling in my opinion.
I enjoy this game, for the most part. But I'm really tired of worthless content being thrown our way.
Make the rewards worth the investment of time and effort, PLEASE.
Crisis Quest, foolish to complete. Pretty much a waste of time and effort for the proffered reward.
Science System, foolish to participate beyond a rudimentary level. No way is getting a bit more gold form your geo worth the RIDICULOUS levels of time and resources you are asking us to invest. Heck even if you TRIPLED the amount of gold a geo could find by maxing him out I still would not spend a year and a king's ransom of resources to level one up.
If your real goal is to goad us into pressing the little gem's buttons to speed things up it's not working.
The only thing you are doing for me is making harder and harder to justify the time (and money) I spend on this game.
"year to level up a single geo"? What am i missing?
to get ALL useful stuff, you need 15 manuscripts, 9 tomes and 7 codexes, roughly a month....and then, you'll eventually get all your money back, unlike Crisis quests. (if you send your leveled up geo 20 times a week to find a 400 ore deposits, some of them will mine faster, so maybe you can squeeze 25 a week.... that's 5000 ore per week profit....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xarthic
oh I sure hope the costs don't go up every 10 books... that's just ridiculous... it's already high enough.
I have 6 geos to upgrade, and when generals and explorers can be upgraded too... that's another 6 specialists to upgrade.
It's bad enough the book binder is slow... needing increased resource costs is just unnecessary.
[QUOTE=Wujcio;208978]"year to level up a single geo"? What am i missing?
to get ALL useful stuff, you need 15 manuscripts, 9 tomes and 7 codexes, ok your going to make 9 tomes and 7 codex to use on geo wrongggg you need 5 books used on every line to unlock the line above it and you need 1 manuscript to make each extra tome and 1 extra tome to make each codex
go do your calculations again my friend so you will need minimum of 27 manuscripts 17 tomes and 7 codex to do your geo
[QUOTE=robbyrotten;209017]Quote:
Originally Posted by Wujcio
is that right? tooltip only say "xx books in levels below" i was hoping you can just max out manuscripts and get enough tomes to fill the gap to reach 30 (together with 6 gold codices)....oh well... as far as time needed to max out, still it didnt push it too much out..maybe 40 days max...
Manuscripts are only useful for the first two rows (at the bottom) the next two rows require the tomes, and the top ones all require codexes so it takes 10 manuscripts plus 10 tomes to unlock the codex areas and then if you want any of the stuff at the very top you need to put in 5 codex in each row to get to the top row. So yeah it's a lot of work to get up there and your plan to get up there doesn't work.
What is the point of the talent "Hidden Stone Stash"?
From what I can see testing it on live it gives me treasure 100% of the time that I find a stone deposit, and 0% of the time when I don't. What do you plan to do with the talent? It worked fine when you used it as it was intended and as it was working on the test server. 25 of anything isn't much, so even people who 'spam' stone searches wouldn't come out too ahead.
ErasmusCrow is right, we need a queue in the bookbinder like in the prov house & barracks. Stalldor's numbers are sobering. This science system isn't such a great new development. Unless exotic wood and titanium ore become easier to get . . . and it baffles me why anyone is buying simple paper and nibs, when their own production can easily keep up with the bookbinder. I sold some for the cost of the pinewood logs and copper ore, but I'm surprised someone actually bought the stuff. One simple thing could change how this is all received by players: make it possible to have more than one bookbinder. (If that ever happens it will probably be something to buy in the gem shop.)
Additional bookbinders would make things to easy and simple. I love that idea.
i think wujcio means you need 10 manuscripts to unlock the first section for tomes, but from there you could potentially completely fill out the manuscript skills (15 total) and have the second row of tome skills available, since you only need 15 books in any of the lower rows. from that point, just 5 skills from tomes will unlock the first codex row, 5 for the next, and 5 for the next.
so 15 manuscripts, 15 tomes (another 15 manuscripts), 1 codex [another 1 tome (another 1 manuscript)] to max out with one skill in the highest tier.
that's a total of 31 manuscripts, 16 tomes, and 1 codex.
Totally agree that what you get out of the science system isn't worth what you put in. Also many of the "skills" are worthless if you already have 15 or 20 jolly geos. What help is it to find marble 8% faster, for example? I don't care. I send out 10 geos at once to find marble, and saving two minutes on one of them is irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratavaruoy
What's more, I *don't want* to find bigger marble deposits. I have just enough levels of marble masons so the mines run out when I want them to. Bigger deposits would throw off my schedule. Really nothing in the science system excites me very much at all.
The gens and explorers (should) be where its really at. Hopefully they have some useful skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waybald
Speaking of which. Any way we can get a preview of the skill trees and/or clue for release date?
If there isn't a dev diary about it. Then there is no release date on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcain