Trade Scammers

Dear Settlers,

There has been an update to our Code of Conduct, stating "Public denouncement regarding cheating is not permitted whether it be multi accounting, trade scamming or any forbidden activity of that type and could result in a chat ban."

Therefore, all threads naming and shaming trade scammers have been taken down.

If you feel you have been scammed, please remember and follow the instructions listed below.

DO NOT name and shame the person in the game or on the forums.

Contact Support to report "scammers".

We do not condone any kind of scamming from players; however, before we can take action we must have evidence of the offense committed.

We will need:
Undeniable screenshot evidence displaying the scam and any relating whispers with the offending player.

A detailed report sent to Support, documenting the date, time, players involved and full details of the trades. Please remember to also include the link to the screen shots if you chose to upload them. You can also choose to wait for the automated response to your support ticket (that you will receive on the mail you used to sign up) and attach the screen shots to your reply or you can just send a mail with all details to account.support@castleempireonline.com.


Scamming will result in a permanent game ban.

The punishment for scamming is a permanent game ban since we have a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to scamming. Make sure to always screen shot trades with players you do not know when they are made outside the Trade Office. However, please take into account that most TSO players are not out to scam you and sometimes people can go offline cause of internet issues, real life etc.

Please don't hesitate to contact me or the Support team if you have more questions in this regard.

Thank you,

BB_Rawren

I think we need a definition of what a scam is, considering people will throw around the word scam without there being one

Ok BB, im sure you know i am a trader so i will start by naming a few scams.

#1- Selling of Lootspot Scam. Someone advertises to sell a lootspot and posts the 1fish for the gc in TO and someone buys it and the seller does not give the lootspot.
ex- (1 post 1 fish in TO for 700gc)- *in trade tab writes*- selling 1 vtv ls for 700gc, 1fish posted for the 700gc in TO. *fish sells for the gc and i do not invite the player who bought it to the ls*

#2- Swapping or buying baskets Scam- Someone advertises to buy or swap baskets or any type of buffs, the person who takes this seller up on the deal gives payment of dropping baskets or buffs on the sellers island and then the seller does not follow up on his side of the deal, buy either NOT sending the payment or not dropping buffs.

#3- Selling of Gifted Gem Items Scam- kind of like the Lootspot scam but instead this uses gem items AND both the seller and buyer could get scammed (though i guess it could go that way for any scam but this one is more popular to get scammed both ways.)
ex: Gifting gem items, whisper. *someone whispers me, i figure out what they want and i tell them how the price, i post the 1 fish in TO for the amount of gc agreed on and they accept my trade and i do not follow through with payment OR i get a whisper and figure out what that player wants and i gift them the items first and they do not send or accept payment.
-I have sold gems in the past, when i sell gems to someone who is not a friend or even close friend i will ALWAYS get payment first (i know i am not a scammer so i want to make sure i get paid before i send them gem items).

-Note- Someone who buys things for cheap (lower than market value) is not a scammer (and i am not just saying this becasue i buy low and sell high, becasue i do, but i am saying this because a scam is when one person does not follow through with their side of the deal.

Let me know if these are some of the scams that you are talking about BB, as well as any others i have not listed. Hope that^ helped
-TH

and the excessive hoarding scam that is the worst!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TrueHead

a scam is when one person does not follow through with their side of the deal.

---

This is the simplest definition of a scam. If a person offers something on trade for x amount of money, you send them the money but they do not send you the item - that is a scam.

Of course, as noted above, sometimes real life does get in the way - the person has to step away from the computer or gets logged out or something. Always try to follow through with the person first if you think that you have been scammed. Give them the benefit of a doubt.

However, if they still refuse to give you what you have purchased, please do send in a ticket to Support. Keep in mind that screenshots, dates, times, and any other proof you have of a scam will be incredibly helpful for us.

As always, use your best judgement when dealing with people outside of the Trade Office.

Also whispering a member of their guild is a good idea, that often solves the problem before having to take action in sending in ticket, which is why i tihnk it is necessary that UBI re-implements seeing other guilds member list in the guild shield

Will BB be telling us what prices we have to set next?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EpsilonSilver

Will BB be telling us what prices we have to set next?

---

Not sure what you mean. You can set whatever prices you want.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EpsilonSilver

Will BB be telling us what prices we have to set next?

---

It's their game, dude. If they want to try & legislate behavior, it's their prerogative. You're always free to develop your own game & set it up to enable scams.

The only change that's happening here is that they've said stop trying to publicly shame people, (about time!). Scamming has always been against the CoC.

You just got trolled Rawren.

ES at it again lol

Given people don't expect to be scammed, why would they have a screenshot documenting the events? Occasionally yes, usually no.

BB asks for screen shots for every complaint and problem. Cuts down on the requests for solutions.

#4 Auctions - trades with multiple resources being traded.

#5 The add on - Deals that keep changing as the resources are in the process of being transferred.

Having some recourse for trades gone bad is the right thing to do. I applaud BB's decision to update the code.

Question: What about guild hoppers? There are players whose intent is to take advantage of guild members' generosity. They get what the can from a guild then leave and join the next group. I know many guilds give away resources to their members, with the 'pay it forward' philosophy. Shouldn't we have a way to warn other guilds about people who take advantage?

Quote:

---

It's their game, dude. If they want to try & legislate behavior, it's their prerogative. You're always free to develop your own game & set it up to enable scams.

---

That wasn't the point.

It's more of BB somewhat trying to "protect" the scammer by not calling them out in public. The whole point of calling someone out is to protect fellow players from said scammer, and word of mouth travels much faster than your 1 to god-knows-when-support-ticket and maybe ban, because as already mentioned, you are not expected to be scammed, throw in Rawren's "be sure to give it some time, as internet connect might have dropped or emergency arises" and thus the likelyhood of us players starting to screenshot every out of TO trade is...eh, miniscule. Guess what happens to your chatlog if you do lose connection. I for one take extended afk times to return with a crashed plugin because collectibles have spawned.

If you plan to scam, you are well aware of your reputation taking a hit if the scam is discovered, and BB simply wants us to keep quiet and wait for them to act. To top the whole thing off, all current scammers are immune to getting banned, as screenshots and blahblah are required which there aren't any available. So we _have_ to get scammed again before we can actually get rid of such a person. To sweeten this just a little bit more, nothing was said about reimburstment if someone got scammed, reported and had the person banned.

Obviously this change in CoC won't have any real effect on us, we'll still talk about it within guild, in whispers to other guilds and they spread the word there, all in all we just need to use a loophole to avoid getting banned(?) ourselves for calling out a scammer in plublic.

Ceruhe, you have some very valid points, and some I agree with.

Just to play devil's advocate, I'm thinking the reason they don't want us talking about it in global channels is due to the arguments/drama that ensues in chat. There was recently an argument between two players, both saying the other was trying to scam them, which to me (after talking with both players) just looked like a big misunderstanding and two egos/tempers. I don't think either set out to scam the other, but now both reputations are stained because of the argument. Situations like this should be resolved in whisper, and guild leaders can step in if needed. Then take it to BB if it can't be resolved. There's no need for everyone to see the drama interrupting a chat.

I do agree with you, however, that we do need some way to inform others about repeat offenders. Misunderstandings aside, some players do set out to intentionally take advantage or cheat others out of stuff...which I really don't understand. I mean, how petty do you have to be to cheat people on a FREE game? The scammer list on the forum we had was useful. The accused scammer could also state their side, and if its a misunderstanding, the accuser would retract. Guild leaders would use this list to avoid bringing known scammers into their guild. So now, we'll have to email all the guild leaders we know to warn them? Very inefficient.


To sum: agree with not calling out scammers in chat, take it to whisper. DISAGREE with taking down the scammer list on the forum!

"There has been an update to our Code of Conduct, stating "Public denouncement regarding cheating is not permitted whether it be multi accounting, trade scamming or any forbidden activity of that type and could result in a chat ban.""

BB_Rawren I think that BlueByte may actually be hurting themselves from a revenue perspective with this COC update. Consider that the people who generally fall victim to a "scam" are new(er) players. It's been my experience over the past 10-11 months here that the people who spend real dollars on this game are the ones who have had a chance to advance a little bit, learn about the game and start to become part of this community. If those new(er) players quickly lose their assets and resources as a result of somebody scamming them they're not going to file a report, they're going to quit and go play another online game. They're not going to stick around long enough to reach the point where they will spend real money to play this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dirkjon

"There has been an update to our Code of Conduct, stating "Public denouncement regarding cheating is not permitted whether it be multi accounting, trade scamming or any forbidden activity of that type and could result in a chat ban.""

BB_Rawren I think that BlueByte may actually be hurting themselves from a revenue perspective with this COC update. Consider that the people who generally fall victim to a "scam" are new(er) players. It's been my experience over the past 10-11 months here that the people who spend real dollars on this game are the ones who have had a chance to advance a little bit, learn about the game and start to become part of this community. If those new(er) players quickly lose their assets and resources as a result of somebody scamming them they're not going to file a report, they're going to quit and go play another online game. They're not going to stick around long enough to reach the point where they will spend real money to play this game.

---

So how is that going to hurt UBI, either or they would have gotten scammed, but now they have the ability to catch and ban scammers which would lead us eventually to a scammer free community, not sure i understand your point

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TrueHead

So how is that going to hurt UBI, either or they would have gotten scammed, but now they have the ability to catch and ban scammers which would lead us eventually to a scammer free community, not sure i understand your point

---

They've ALWAYS had the ability to catch & ban scammers. That's been against the CoC for a long time. The change now is that the scam victim is not allowed to run to the forums & publicly denounce someone as a scammer.

So all the doom & gloomers, who are also experts at sociology & human behavioral patterns, are convinced that BB has screwed up. LOL. Probably not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TrueHead

So how is that going to hurt UBI, either or they would have gotten scammed, but now they have the ability to catch and ban scammers which would lead us eventually to a scammer free community, not sure i understand your point

---

My point was that by the time BlueByte catches and bans the scammers the noobs that were scammed will most likely have lost their resources and quit. Most noobs probably don't know how to file a report or that they even can file a report. Players that aren't given a chance to develop and level aren't going to spend any real money, which is how the new COC could potentially hurt BlueByte. However, when players in Trade Chat alert the folks in that chat that a certain offer or post is suspicious the noob would probably proceed a bit more cautiously, not lose his or her resources, have a chance to develop and level, gain more interest in the game and hopefully spend some real money to support it.

Big difference between observing in chat that a trade is suspicious vs. going into the forum & posting, "XXX is a scammer." BB recognizes the differences between those two scenarios, and as a result, one is allowed & the other is not, (anymore).

BBs never really enforced their rules against scammers, this is the first time i have heard of them saying that scammers will be banned

I wouldn't know what they have/haven't done, but that's somewhat immaterial, as they take care to NOT share the details of a player's situation with others. I know I've heard of people being banned, and while I can't think of one related to scamming, it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. The point is that in many cases, people could be banned without anyone ever knowing. After all, the absence of a player who is known to scam could be the result of a scam, or the player quitting the game. The results are the same to other players; the scammer is gone.

thats cool psaltery, this is the first time ive heard of something like that and it is nice to know that BB do take action against scammers. only concern i have is- Will they (BB) be fast enough to catch and ban the scammer before they act again (without us being able to publicly accuse them of scamming and warning others). But i think they did this so people cannot call someone a scammer and try to ruin their reputation when in fact no scam occurred.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by psaltery

Yes they look into reports of scamming, and I know for a fact they do ban people for it. A while back there was someone friending people then sending them reverse trades, hoping players would miss it in the middle of accepting many trades at a time. Several of us set up a sting to catch him in the act and got screenshots of him doing it. He's now perma banned :)

---

Interesting.

Most of us who play this game also have respect for other players. We need to be able to communicate to each other when someone is scamming or taking advantage of newbs

I have to disagree with you, Rawren.

I understand the desire to avoid petty drama and cheesy whinefests, but all that aside, a code of silence benefits the offender immensely. If bandit A knows he can scam noobs B, C, D, etc, and can get them banned if they say ANYthing about it in public, then A is emboldened and, in a sense, empowered in his actions. A will succeed substantially within the game's parameters, while most of the rest of the alphabet will fade into inactivity and quit. Meanwhile, since only a serious player would go to the effort to farm noobs in this game's format, it is likely that these bandits are paying customers.
The logical conclusion to that is detrimental to UBI's reputation as well as their wider profitability.
To make matters worse, you lay out a method of recourse which is outside of all probability. How many noobs would know to keep screen shots of every private trade? I didn't even know how those worked until a guild member explained them. The least you could do in enacting this CoC is to code some kind of archive of private trades and lock it to prevent users from deleting anything they don't want known. Then in any case of accusation, all an admin would have to do is pull up the archive and there it would be. I don't see an archive like that being implemented.
Let's extrapolate such a rule outside of the game . . . Think of how it would be if we were forbidden to discuss disreputable merchants IRL. Car makers would still be making hatchbacks with gas tanks prone to explode in rear-end collisions (buyer beware, right? but HOW?), and milk packages wouldn't be able to promise the absence of "questionably" harmful processes in the production of their milk. OTC medications would have the same likelihood of bad integrity as patent medicines and street drugs.
The surest way to empower, entrench and encourage an undesirable action is to enact a code of silence to protect it.
I, for one, do not think this change will benefit the community.
=S=

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by psaltery

Question: What about guild hoppers? There are players whose intent is to take advantage of guild members' generosity. They get what the can from a guild then leave and join the next group. I know many guilds give away resources to their members, with the 'pay it forward' philosophy. Shouldn't we have a way to warn other guilds about people who take advantage?

---

+1.. sometimes, scams happen in guilds, like one I heard about someone running away with 800 eggs, which were being passed around between guild members for the easter quest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Strannyuk

I have to disagree with you, Rawren.

I understand the desire to avoid petty drama and cheesy whinefests, but all that aside, a code of silence benefits the offender immensely. If bandit A knows he can scam noobs B, C, D, etc, and can get them banned if they say ANYthing about it in public, then A is emboldened and, in a sense, empowered in his actions. A will succeed substantially within the game's parameters, while most of the rest of the alphabet will fade into inactivity and quit. Meanwhile, since only a serious player would go to the effort to farm noobs in this game's format, it is likely that these bandits are paying customers.
The logical conclusion to that is detrimental to UBI's reputation as well as their wider profitability.
To make matters worse, you lay out a method of recourse which is outside of all probability. How many noobs would know to keep screen shots of every private trade? I didn't even know how those worked until a guild member explained them. The least you could do in enacting this CoC is to code some kind of archive of private trades and lock it to prevent users from deleting anything they don't want known. Then in any case of accusation, all an admin would have to do is pull up the archive and there it would be. I don't see an archive like that being implemented.
Let's extrapolate such a rule outside of the game . . . Think of how it would be if we were forbidden to discuss disreputable merchants IRL. Car makers would still be making hatchbacks with gas tanks prone to explode in rear-end collisions (buyer beware, right? but HOW?), and milk packages wouldn't be able to promise the absence of "questionably" harmful processes in the production of their milk. OTC medications would have the same likelihood of bad integrity as patent medicines and street drugs.
The surest way to empower, entrench and encourage an undesirable action is to enact a code of silence to protect it.
I, for one, do not think this change will benefit the community.
=S=

---

Taking the extrapolation to outside examples ... Think how happier Richard Jewell would be if the FBI hadn't been allowed to falsely accuse him of planting a bomb during the Atlanta Olympics. Or perhaps Shirley Sherrod would still be at work at the Dept of Agriculture, if a blogger hadn't been allowed to edit a video of her that cast her in an unflattering light. Or on a larger scale, how many lives would be saved, if the accusations of WMDs in Iraq were silenced before war was declared?

I don't support scammers, have never scammed anyone, and so far as I can recall, I've never been scammed either. But I'm 100% supportive of BB saying that as trades are private transactions between two players, the results are private as well. And if there's an issue where one participant dislikes the outcome, the appropriate avenue for recourse is BB support, NOT the forums, or public chat areas. They didn't address email or PMs, so you can draw your own conclusions around those mediums.

My opinion is that trade scams should be allowed.

That's more like real life.

In real life you can get ripped off.

I'm not talking credit card fraud here.

Caveat Emptor. Let my free market be free. Let me trade whatever I want for whatever I can get.

The market will correct itself as the people who get burned on deals learn not to deal with scammers like me.

They will soon learn that real life does not babysit your every transaction and interaction.

Stop trying to create a non-real environment in the trade.

Let the buyer beware.

Name shaming invites controversy into the Trade tab and or Forum.

An innocent player could be shamed.

The majority of players want fair and honest trade, there is a common unity in that belief.

It is the Market which is free. How we use the market has rules.

This is our game.

Let the scammer beware.

A code of silence never made anything better. The game is based in Europe, where it is less likely this would be understood, but in the USA, we regard freedom of speech as a basic right, one worth protecting.

no freedom of speech on a private server. u sign away that right when u agree to their terms of service and play

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Strannyuk

A code of silence never made anything better. The game is based in Europe, where it is less likely this would be understood, but in the USA, we regard freedom of speech as a basic right, one worth protecting.

---

That's kind of offensive, to any reasonably educated person.

I'm in the USA, and I strongly endorse this ban on public shaming. Freedom of speech has NOTHING to do with this. Understand what that means before bringing it into this conversation. It has to do with the US government's limits on what speech they can prevent, nothing to do with agreements between private parties.

Seems like every time that this comes up the only people who are in support of the current policies are the scammers and cheats. And I really don't care what their opinions are ;-)

My smart arse thought is: Caveat Emptor

wimpy, I don't think they teach basic Latin in the schools anymore :(
translation for the young: Let the buyer beware. (be aware, know who u are dealing with and what prices are)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dirkjon

Seems like every time that this comes up the only people who are in support of the current policies are the scammers and cheats. And I really don't care what their opinions are ;-)

---

That's beyond offensive. How awesome that you can discount dissenting opinions by saying I'm a cheater. Let me know when you find the person I've cheated. I'll be over here, not holding my breath.