Mouse recorders - Official BB statement wanted !!!

Dear BB,

I would like to get clarification about usage of mouse actions recording software to simplify some repetitive actions in the game (recruiting troops, unloading generals etc.). Are they forbidden and they usage banable?

I have read and heard conflicting statements about this issue in forum and from other players so I would like to know your official statement on this.

I have found nothing in Rules or Code of Conduct which would disallow their use but I just want to be sure. There is no change in the way the games interface works when using them. They are just repeating the same clicks and moves with the mouse I do but just save my hand from pain. They also do not provide any advantage to anyone in the game.

Can I get an official answer on this?

P.S. It would be so great to have at least some relief. I'm in game just for two months and LVL46 only but I already feel the pain in my hand sometimes... I cannot imagine what will come when I will get to FT adventures...


Best regards,

Empik

more and likely its a no

Traditionally game companies get upset when computers play the game for the player and not when the player uses a computer to assist routine playing of the game. I'll harken back to Ultima Online, a game that required a similar amount of clicking to get anything done. Some lovely person created a dedicated macro program to help automate tasks (i.e., you had to click on wool, click on a loom, then do that again for a total of 5 times, then you'd get a bolt of cloth...if you needed 100 bolts of cloth, you can see where this is going). Now, this was technically paying the game for you; however, if you were watching the thing go, you were playing the game, just not getting carpel tunnel (which, btw, the bloody game gave me and it took me 6 years and special mice to be able to use an ergonomic mouse again). It was called "Attended Macroing" and all the GMs did was talk to you and, if you responded, they left you alone. If not, they swatted you with the ban stick for a few days as a warning.

Now...mouse recorders don't monkey with the game at all, they monkey with the operating system. Like UO above, the macro programs couldn't read the game stream, make decisions, or otherwise play the game, but keep in mind UO was a MMO, and TSO...really isn't, not in the traditional sense. So there really isn't anything to be gained by a macro that gems wouldn't get you easier and faster. Moreover, loading/unloading: Barracks, Generals, Email, Provision House, RarityPH, or placing/replacing stock trades on the TO are about the places you can really benefit from it. NONE give you any competitive edge on anyone else in the game.

Unlike UO, the only advantage to a mouse-recorded macro is the staving off carpel tunnel. The only edge it provides in, say, loading generals is that you're less likely to load them wrong -- but then again, that's a complicated bit of crazy to try to use it for that purpose; however, using it for a generic "unload all the generals" (something the game should have already) might be worthwhile.

Further, while UO did, eventually, put some effort into detecting "unattended macroing," it was only a general policing effort and you had to be doing it for 30min or more. Mostly they relied in user reports. There's no advantage-over-others to be gained from using a mouse-macro, nor any users to report you.

While BB will likely not come out and say anything on this topic -- there is no advantage to them and a downside of people reading into it and doing something they would get grumpy about -- given the state of the game, do you really think they put in any code to detect udp timing? Doubtful. And even if they did, there's no reason to bother a player about it because it really gains them nothing in the end in terms of advantage.

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I have found nothing in Rules or Code of Conduct which would disallow their use...

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Given this, and the above, and the fact that no BB has closed the door on the various threads that touch the topic on the various TSO forums, I think it's safe to assume that they are either fine or not an issue large enough for them to stop turning a blind eye.

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Utilizing or advertising game hacks, cheats, or bots will result in a permanent ban.
 There is very little room for negotiation; there is a zero tolerance policy for any type of macro, script, bot or other program that can change the way the game interface works

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from BB rawrens code of conduct

Lol, the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread was that kid in class who would ask "is there any homework this weekend?"

To be honest, I think that some staff at BB feel bad about the failure to keep up with the playerbase growth, and were running on a "don't ask don't tell" system. Way to shine a light on things...
When I first started the most you could trade for was 400 of a resource, and it was fine the first few weeks. Can you imagine being limited to that now?
Same goes for training troops. Now that troop losses are often in the several thousand per adventure, the game mechanic of only training 25 at a time is out dated.

The strange part is that there are quite a few fixes that have been suggested:
1. bigger sliders (1,000 should do for now)
2. default sliders to max (even if it was ALL sliders in the game)
3. add new troop "recruit platoon" make it 25x the cost, and 25 recruits like "retired bandits" when making bread people. Then with the same slider= 625 max
4. use the trade office system of "lots" using the same old 25 max slider, but allowing up to 100 lots of recruits should do for now.

Personally I would prefer #4, if it was done in such a way that we could cancel remaining lots and sneak in a chunk of elites or something in case of failed block. Using the building queue system to allow us to move something up in the list would work perfectly, provided that instead of a "move up one slot" arrow the arrow was "move to next"

Just in case you haven't read the further explanation of the code of conduct, we recently published it to help clear up ambiguities.

Utilizing or advertising exploits is cheating.
Sometimes the game functions in ways not originally intended by the development team. Exploits can grant an unfair advantage and utilizing or advertising them could result in a ban. The exploits should be reported directly to Support. We will go over the facts on a case by case basis.

Utilizing or advertising game hacks, cheats, or bots will result in a permanent ban.
There is very little room for negotiation; there is a zero tolerance policy for any type of macro, script, bot or other program that can change the way the game interface works.


You may find the full thread here

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Originally Posted by soggyshorts

.......
Personally I would prefer #4, if it was done in such a way that we could cancel remaining lots and sneak in a chunk of elites or something in case of failed block. Using the building queue system to allow us to move something up in the list would work perfectly, provided that instead of a "move up one slot" arrow the arrow was "move to next"

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Blocking is not an intended feature of the game and therefore it is not supported *giggles*

Pretty much, anything you do with this game that is not your hand pointing and clicking 1,000,000 times to do ANYTHING. Is cheating.

Thank you for your answer BB_Susurrously. I just do not see how replaying of mouse actions can "change the way how game interface work" to quote the rules. It cannot also "grant an unfair advantage" to quote the other part.

Can you clarify it to me a bit more why do you feel in BB that it should be banned?

Thank you for your reply in advance...

Hi,

on the German server lots of people used a 'mouse repetition' program during the Balloon Event. Nothing happened to those players.

@ Empik. It took me two and a half years to get to lvl 50 on the German server. If you are already lvl 46, you probably wont be playing TSO in six months time. so I wouldn't worry too much.

Deichgraf

Still doesn't answer the question on if this actually interferes with the interface. Technically this is just mouse movement. A definite Yes/No is what is really needed here. I did not take away a yes/no from this (though I have nothing to worry about I know many that DO use such recorders because queing 400 x25 is a big pain

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Originally Posted by BB_Susurrously

. Exploits can grant an unfair advantage and utilizing or advertising them could result in a ban. The exploits should be reported directly to Support. [/URL]

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Yeah, those people who use macros wont get carpel tunnel, **** THEM!

I don't think macros fall under "exploits" . I may be wrong, but exploits are generally bugs like parrot double drops. The lag was the bug, using a buff/depo twice is the exploitation of that bug.

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Originally Posted by soggyshorts

I don't think macros fall under "exploits" . I may be wrong, but exploits are generally bugs like parrot double drops. The lag was the bug, using a buff/depo twice is the exploitation of that bug.

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"Utilizing or advertising game hacks, cheats, or bots will result in a permanent ban.
There is very little room for negotiation; there is a zero tolerance policy for any type of MACRO, script, bot or other program that can change the way the game interface works."- Susu

If we assume that "change the way the game interface works" refers to how we, the player interface with the game (which I do) that pretty much covers it.
The answer is that mouse recorders are a bannable offence.

Since we have that out of the way then, how about an official BB response/plan of action to correct the games interface deficiencies that are causing people to use macros?

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Originally Posted by soggyshorts

If we assume that "change the way the game interface works" refers to how we, the player interface with the game (which I do) that pretty much covers it.
The answer is that mouse recorders are a bannable offence.

Since we have that out of the way then, how about an official BB response/plan of action to correct the games interface deficiencies that are causing people to use macros?

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one thing at a time bud lets get the game working right first.....then we can add to the wish lists

Not sure if he was around for the old trade system and the 400 limit ... I think everybody was using scripts at that point.

Eventually they fixed it. Mail system is a work in progress, I guess. Barracks ought to be next.

I never had to use a script for 400 Limit trade. Didn't really have too.

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Originally Posted by RomanGodCamper

I never had to use a script for 400 Limit trade. Didn't really have too.

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Neither did I.

im sure if they went back to the 400 limit trade, you guys would use scripts. 400, 4000, 40k and even some cases of 400k units of a resource are not significant at all. But ofcourse if you dont trade then u wouldnt have to worry, but back then, 400 of a resource was way way way more significant to us then it is now. Personally if the trade system went back to 400 units max per trade, i would definitely use macro or just quit, u think that making 25 troops/buffs per cycle is bad- imagine buying or selling one million of just one resource, that is a total of 2.5k trades you would have to send....

that's why they slipped in that 19 or 20 bug in there to throw the bots off

There have been cases that I saw where players claimed to have BB permission to use mouse recorders sue to some physical handicap.

I see now why people got so upset that the sliders stopping at 20 on the first use.

I would like call to attention to the fact that in the German Forum there is a page that introduces a small program which helps to find the Collectables....

This is allowed by BB

http://forum.diesiedleronline.de/thr...r-Suchroutinen

Under the stated rules, the advisement is to not use any programs that "can change the way the game interface works." The collectible finder does not affect the game client at all, as it simply runs a search on a picture of the island. It is technically no different than loading a screen shot into a paint program and modifying the picture. There is one main reason for the lack of oversight into this area - it is not detectible by the game. The only way to prevent it from being used would be to prevent people from taking screen shots.


From my previous experience using mouse simulators, the same is essentially true. The only method that can be used to detect their use is if the game monitors the frequency and timing of people performing actions. Of course, even this could be bypassed using a loop that contains more than one iteration, as the systems are not typical set up to measure longer periods. Since the number of troops is capped out regardless, there is also no trigger that would normally occur when someone is able to make thousands of an object that could not be done normally; a mouse program only saves user movements without increasing the end result. I can't come up with a way to use this type of program to provide any unfair advantage to a player where one would not already exist due to the physical ability to move a mouse more easily.


While it would make it simpler for one of the BB to just say it is okay to use them, it is not likely to happen. If only because some player could come up with a way to exploit the game using one, which may depend on future additions to the game. If you have such concerns that it still would be a problem with the guidelines posted by the BB before, then do not use it. Otherwise, use should be determined by 2 questions: Does it affect the data flow between the client game and the server? Does it allow players to do something they could not do otherwise?

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Originally Posted by G_F_M

one thing at a time bud lets get the game working right first.....then we can add to the wish lists

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Heh, after getting zone locked 3 days in a row I finally was able to play, logged in , thought about queuing up a few thousand troops logged out.

For me the slider thing is a deal breaker. At least with the zone crashes there are BB responses, and we know they are working on it.

I'll still log in to do dailies while I drink my first cup of coffee, but that's about it.

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Originally Posted by Empik

Thank you for your answer BB_Susurrously. I just do not see how replaying of mouse actions can "change the way how game interface work" to quote the rules. It cannot also "grant an unfair advantage" to quote the other part.

Can you clarify it to me a bit more why do you feel in BB that it should be banned?

Thank you for your reply in advance...

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Ubisoft/Blue Byte Studios' Official response is located in our Terms of Use and our Rules/Code of Conduct for our games.

If these rules, terms, or conditions change the proper documentation below will be updated as well.

http://forum.thesettlersonline.net/t...ules-Explained

http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/Info.aspx?tagname=TermsOfUse

Thread Closed.