Please leave all your feedback about the First Insights post here.
Please leave all your feedback about the First Insights post here.
So if I understand correctly I don't need to send a ticket in for the quests I have already finished as the script will take care of that issue?
Something missing in the Dev Diary
Granite mine:
Cost - 1975 gems
Cycle - 51 min and change
* available on the test server
Gold mine:
Cost - 1095 gems
Upgrade - already upgraded to Level 6
Cycle - ??
* not available on Test server, although some players were able to get their hands on it:
http://siedler-vision.de/wp-content/...ne-Stufe-6.jpg
Nice :)
I haven't looked at the test server in a while (shame on me) so will the new gold mine replace one of the 8 existing ones or will we be able to find a new deposit to place it?
Okay. First the positive feedback. Good job on the Gold Mine being level 6. Seems like its just similar to the Arctic Iron Mine if the resources deplete. But that's okay. I usually have 1 level 5 gold mine not depleting and being refilled so level 6 is better than 5.
The negative feedback. Granite Pit consuming 3 units just to output 1 really sucks. That basically says Omniseeds are really providing granite at a 3rd of its deposit value. So value wise, 3 omniseeds = 3 gold ore = 1 granite. Maybe 2 gold ore = 1 granite would be better.
ALSO- for 1975 gems for 1000 granite that is NOT instant (considering you have to mine it over time) is NOT a good value. It needs to have a higher starting deposit.
Considering that you can buy 500 granite for 995 gems instantly But now you have to wait a VERY long time to get the payout (with only a slight benefit of buffing the building. (Also if you upgrade the pit to level 5, you need to spend 500 coins something to factor into the cost if you plan to use 4 x buff consider the gold value of what the 4x buff is and see if you actually gain that much from the pit - its only marginally better).
I could just redirect you guys to the same feedback that was posted on the test server every time this granite pit was introduced.
This feedback is more or less going to get ignored by developers anyways since all the same feedback is going to be exactly the same as provided on the test server so if it was ignored there- most likely ignored here until everybody on live actually starts expressing some anger.
Anyways. Good job on XP and star coins conversion. At least that is finally happening.
If you look at the screen shot. Its basically taking over a gold deposit. It won't be replacing an existing mine unless you destroy the building there. It will not be placed randomly anywhere on the map like gem pit.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyOol
It most likely is the same function as the artic iron mine. already upgraded to a level 6 equivalent.
Its called "Artic Gold Mine" on the test server.
http://i.imgur.com/84ZoulG.png
granite mine V1 was bad, V2 stays bad
excited for the new gold mine :)
What's funny is that they think these Granite pit is so OP that they must limit it to 1 a week! LOL.
IF BB really wants to make money off of suckers who want to buy this Granite Pit, they're better off removing the 1 a week limit and let people buy as much as they want. LOL.
BB obviously overvalues these Granite Pits like they overvalue 10 settlers for 95 gems. (I'm sure some sucker will buy the granite pit in mass quality which they should take advantage of).
I'll just wait for granite pits to be given a way as an event prize.
Good job on the star coins conversion. signing out :)
So does the Granite pit consumes something to produce the granite, and what resources will the pit require to upgrade to lvl 5?
Granite pit starts off with 3000 "units" of rock? it consumes 3 rocks to make 1 granite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapture52
To refill it you need to use Omni seeds.
Upgrading costs: 100hardwood,100marble (lvl1) lvl 2 uses 200 each. lvl 3 uses 300 each lvl 4 uses 400 each. LVL5 uses 500coins.
Granite Pit doesn't make any sense. Aside from the cost (always with the gem purchases for new buildings now? really?), it uses up "3 Granite" to make "1 Granite"...what's the point? Just set it to have 2000 less granite if you don't want more than 1000 granite to come out of it. Jeez. I suppose you're hoping people will accidentally miss the fact that you're not going to offer up the full 3000 granite that comes with the pit, and just pop out 1k for 'em, in order to steal away gems from people who don't read the fine details. Ridiculous. Almost as bad as the official "decoration" objects included in the "get a rare building" boxes. Shame on you people. Just don't put the pit in. It's worthless.
Here's some economy math for you to consider:
If you buy a Granite Pit for 1975 gems. AT best you can get is 4000 granite. (efforts require, upgrading it, upgrading cost associated to it, cost of the buff to get it to spit out x4, waiting a long time to get the payout.).
Now if you spend 1995 gems to buy an Improved Silo. SELL it on Trade for 24,000 coins (probably for more since people are selling them now at 26,500). Take those coins and buy granite from others say at a rate of 3 coins per 1 granite. You'd get 8,000 granite (or more even). You'd probably get this faster than waiting it out on the granite pit. Not to mention you get double the amount!
Basically TLDR:
Granite Pit = VERY BAD!
Post 3 is the important one for me. Knowing the costs, I'll pass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirbei
I think their reasoning for that is to make Omni seed have some other value. Otherwise people would put all their Omni seed on granite pits and not exotic wood tree or gold mines. (assuming later they'll bring out the exotic tree). Assuming that exotic wood tree will consume a different ratio than 3. Of course all this assumes BB had some actual reasoning. Maybe I'm giving them too much credit.
It would sure be nice if after a BB announcement there was nothing but praises. They test things and get tons of bad comments, then go ahead and introduce into the game. Sounds a little screwy to me.
I think everything sounds good as far as the L6 Goldmine and the Star coins from xp for level 50 players, but the granite pit needs to be a 1-1 ratio or I will never buy one. That is all I have to say about it.
So, 2k gems to get 1k granite fully built, but takes months, or I could run a ML or 2 and get 1k granite in 30 minutes. Let me think about that for a minute....yeah, no.
Ok lets assume this is only about granite refills:
A granite pit, level 5, produces 480 granite per 96h base and uses 1440 from the deposit. We will use a rainbow snow on this granite pit, to produce a total of 1920 granite.
Assuming omni deposits starts out and sells for a slight premium over gold deposit, so 1.6 per deposit compared to golds 1.5. 1440 deposit * 1.5 = 2160 deposit cost. add in 2400 for rainbow snow. that is a 4560 cost. The granite produced in the 96: 1920*3 = 5760. For now, it will be profitable to refill, assuming omni stays near gold in value.
5760 - 2400 - 1440 * X = 0, to figure out at what price per omni deposit granite mine becomes no-profit: 2.33 per omni deposit.
Omni is 5 per gem, while gold parrots are 6.66 per gem. This means naturally, omni deposits should sell for 1.32x as much per quantity as gold deposits. Given current 1.5 price on gold deposits, this would be a 1.98 price on omni's starting out if compared by gem purchases.
Queston is: will a lapse in coin production and a surge in granite do to granites price? If the gem ratio of gold to omni comes into play, the 2.73 price of granite is the equilibrium.
Likely on Ares, granite pit is slightly not worth it. On Zeus, granite pit is slightly worth it. On German ancient servers, granite pit is the best gift in a long long time.
Overall my reaction: this seems like one of the better balanced updates BB has done in a while. Its not great, its not awful, its fair. Of course if i made some sort of error in one of these basic calculations, my opinion could change.
My biggest comment would be that cycle time of the granite pit could possibly be improved a little bit, to maybe 45 minutes. Could be nice if omni-seeds replaced wheat deposits in adv drops.
I'm pretty excited about everything but will reserve final judgement for final version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draconus2004
Sorry but if you factor in the fact that you could be selling your rainbow buff and your omniseed away. Its not worth the trouble. Also consider the initial cost of the pit being 1975 gems.
Rainbow buff gives you only an extra 1440 granite. If you sell your rainbow buff and your Omni seed you could be making the same amount difference in gold to just buy granite. A lot of times granite sells for 2coins per 1 granite. (sometimes less).
And of course, the amount of gems spent you could be buying other items and sell them on trade and get up to 3-4 times the output of the granite pit buffed. (as I pointed out in a previous posting).
Right now gem prices are out of whack due to soccer. They will come down soon.
My point is this: yes selling the rainbows and omnis can net NEARLY as much profit, but not quite as much. Thats called balance.
Also - sell me your granite for 2 per. I will buy up to 1m.
i'm happy for anything new. for those that are playing TSO Tycoon well sorry for you. you probably won't make a "pixel profit" on these but oh well.
I've managed to post 2000 coins for 999 granite before and people have sold me granites.Quote:
Originally Posted by Draconus2004
I've even done 1001 coins for 499 granite.
There's always somebody who needs coins fast that have a lot of granites.
You just got to play with the trade market.
I mean considering that there are a lot of people who lack any sense of economy knowledge willing to buy crap from the gem store. You'd think there would be enough of them to accept your trade offerings. Think about it. BB makes money from offering bad deals and bad items and people are willing to buy them. Why not the same on trade office.
1 or 2 idiots every week selling you granite hardly means the price is 2 per.
when using a value of granite when calcing the value of the granite pits/omnis/rainbows, you should be using the (reasonable) maximum value you can sell granite at, around 3.25gc ish.
Yawn.......
Any word on the gold mine though?
Gold mine
Granite pit contains 3000 units of granite? isn't it.
it depletes said units at a rate of 3 per 1 granite. in reality it holds 1k granite, not worth the gems. its the refills that make it worthwhile.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapture52
Refills are worthwhile i think.. but at base level you need to buy the mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Draconus2004
I like how they call this "Granite Pit V2" when "Granite Pit V1" was so much better.
Time to run 25 IOTPs if I want to make my own Granite Pit mine. Lol
This sounds like there is some serious pressure to make buildings that produce exo. wood and granite, and improved versions of just about everything.
Am I the only who feels that this plan will either end up with nobody buying them or a large explosion of complaints?
No, you are not the only one.
Have the developers never heard of a thing called a flow chart? Maybe I'm just an old codger, but working as a business programmer in the 80's and 90's, my boss would make flow charts that gave us a system overview, what all the modules did and how they interacted with each other. Then we'd discuss it,take it all apart critically and make it as clean and concise as we could.
Here's why I suspect BB doesn't seriously engage in similar exercises. Let's look at explorers and the science system as an example. You buy a savage scout with gems. You take the time to make all the books that get invested in him to become an artifact scout. He brings back a lot of garbage with the occasional rainbow snow and a couple of other buffs that sorta make it worthwhile. Fast forward almost a year and here comes a "lucky explorer" that you can get for soccer balls (free) that brings back random artifacts that are way better than what the savage scout you paid for and developed brings back. hmm.... good planning and WoW, what a morale booster for paying customers!
OK, since the thread is about granite, here's another example. You buy a savage scout or in this case a few and with three cheap to make manuscripts turn them into granite finders. Anybody already doing this knows how much granite you can find a day and how quickly it adds up. Fast forward almost a year and here comes a "granite pit" that is way overpriced for the paltry amount of granite it contains and requires repeated refills which cost gems. Why would anybody buy into this when they can already invest a fairly small amount of gems 1 time and have a steady return of granite forever?
Given the two examples it's easy to see that the poor planning bites both ways. The first example bites the user, the second bites BB.
I just shake my head and mutter under my breath at this game most of the time LOL.
RonEmpire,Quote:
Originally Posted by RonEmpire
I agree with you concerning the value, which is repeatedly diminished for the Granite Pit. I would need a better yield to consider purchasing it too. If it started with a higher amount and only took 2 units to make 1 granite that would be acceptable considering the limitation of using Omniseed only to refill. If they leave the stats as is then they need to make a specific refill that adds a larger amount to the pit. With the current stats I will not purchase it. If they make it more reasonable I'll buy at least a few and continuously purchase refills! </$.02>
The perfect balance for an item is an item that is on the EDGE, not too OP that it hurts existing items, not too bad that it doesn't get used. At least for zeus (and nearly for ares), granite pit is such an item. Maybe its not the OPness you expected, but it is BALANCED. I am sorry they couldn't hand you 500k free granite,Quote:
Originally Posted by BanditFlyy
...so I guess I need to send in a ticket to get my star coins for previously completed quests?Quote:
Originally Posted by Plinkerton