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I'm selling Gold deposits in the T.O for 2.5 to 3 times the gold ore (500 gold ore depo for 1300 gc, sold a 100 depo for 300 gc).
Unbuffed a 500 gold ore deposit produces 62.5 gold coins
Buffed x2 (every stage) produces 500 gold coins
Buffed x3 (every stage) produces 1688 gold coins
Doesn't seem logical to spend ~1300 gc to produce even 1688 gc considering the cost of x3 buffs. And the 2x buff loses gc.
Am I missing something here?
Yes, you are missing the morons who operate 8 coinages/smelters and have 8 lvl 6 mines they run 1 day out of 10.
If you have enough explorers to drop rainbows on your operation, you can lay down some impressive coin and still make a good profit, though your operation would have to be fairly small. It's also possible that the gold chain is the only way to make money they have OR they don't care how much profit as long as it is profit. My advice: pocket the coin and buy yourself a senator.
Pretty much the same for the iron/steel chain. Buying iron ore depo's in the TO loses money. Better off to buy the swords directly.
rainbow snow is only worthwhile when used on fast gold mines (which are second in profit to rebuilt mines with lvl 3 buffs).
its not worth being used on coinages or gold smelters
I see people running gold chains at level 1-2 unbuffed all the time. The new players are actually losing money doing it. If it was up to me I would move the quest to get a gold chain up to about lev 40+. The rules to make a profit from it are simple:
1.Get your gold chain to lev4 to run it.
2.Always run your gold chain buffed 3X
3.NEVER let it run without buffs.
Everyone has an opinion, so here's mine. Everything depends on context, doesn't it?
I use a rainbow snow on a level 5 coinage, which nets me 4,640 coin for a 4 day a run. The rainbow snow is "free" because my explorers find them for me. Am also using a rainbow snow on a level 5 smelter, which produces 2 bars for each gold ore used. Because the smelter produces 9,280 bars per 4 day run & the coinage only uses 4,640 I only need to run the smelter 1/2 the time of running the coinage. The coinage and smelter only run buffed with rainbows. The net result is that I get 2 coins for each gold ore used.
I have 2 geos that find gold deposits of 372 ore, regular speed. I rebuild my mines as they go down and run them buffed most of the time. When I've accumulated a good number of gold depos from running adventures, I'll build one mine to level 5, load it up and run it buffed with gold fevers, which my lucky explorers bring home for free.
Am in the process of upgrading 2 more coinages and smelters to 5.
I used to run the whole (lvl 3) chain all the time & buffed all the time. Got really tired of jumping up in the middle of a movie yelling "crap!!! my gold chain!!!".
So for a small fry operation like mine, and for someone who doesn't want to be enslaved to monitoring gold production buffs every day, twice a day, it makes sense to run the gold chain with rainbow snows brought home by explorers.
Anybody running 12 coinages is of course, a completely different scenario & context, however, not everybody plays the game the same way. Which, BTW, is what makes this such a great game.
I run 10 lvl 5 coinages and 6 lvl 5 smelters. I buy the majority of my ore. The profit/loss analysis of my chain over a 4 day cycle is as follows:
6840 ore - cost: 1900c
6 rainbow snow buffs for smelters - cost: 13,800c
27360 coal for smelters - cost: 275
80 exo baskets for coinages - cost: 8000
So, the 4 day cost of running my chain is 23,975c. The coinages produce 34,800c per 4 day cycle. So the base profit is 10,825 every 4 days with x3 buff applied by myself. As someone pointed out above, that profit increases if I use buffs found by my explorers or as loot in advents and don't have to buy them. Same holds true for depo refills that drop as loot in advents. If my explorers come back with just 1 x3 or x4 buff every 4 days, (which is **** near impossible not to do), then that profit increases yet again. Additionally, if you have friends drop your buffs then the cost for the x3 buffs decreases because you use fewer of them over the course of the 4 day cycle. Others run their chains a bit more efficiently than I do mine so they do a bit better.
Definitely not a "cash cow" but not a "cash crash" either.
nice, 10k profit in 4 days? not bad.
i dont buy depo or buffs, just rebuild mines or use ones found in loot. im too lazy to constantly monitor trade to make a profit. so gold chain is the lazy way to get coin
X4 Buff lvl5-lvl6 gold mines- turn 500 gold ore depo (parrot) into 2k gold ore. x3 gold smelters- 2000 gold ore into 3000 bars. x3 coinages- 3000 bars into 2250 gold coin. minus buff cost and coal and time.....
say a rainbow cost 2.5k gc and can process about 5k gold ore deposit on a lvl5-6 fast gold mine. so ONE rainbow will process a pickaxe, turning 5k gold ore depo into 20k gold ore, using badges turning 20k gold ore into 30k bars, badging coinages turning 30k bars into 22.5k gc.... after minusing cost of rainbow, cost of pickaxe,.... SO- it will take 41 badges to turn 20k gold ore into 30k bars (lvl5 smelters) and 62 badges to turn 30k bars into 22.5k gc. Around 103 (1.2k gc per stack) badges used, 1 rainbow buff (2.5kgc) and 1 pickaxe (7.5kgc), 80k coal (400 gc) = 15344 gc. GIVEN YOU DO NOT!!! MISS A BUFF CYCLE,you will make a total profit of 7156gc
nothing in this game is "free" everything is worth something, opinions do not really matter when it comes to determining profit. It all depends on how much you can get for an item, rather how much u can get an item for. Even if you are buying rainbow for 2k gc, you can still sell it for a 500gc+ profit.
There is still value in gold chaining, if you run your chain properly (not miss a buff cycle, x4 fast lvl 5 gold mines, x3 rest of chain, or the re-built mine scheme).
Now if you are going to start to build/upgrade your gold chain that is not a good move, considering the price the granite is going to cost you in gold coins. Granite is at about 3.5 gold coin per, it will take years and years and years and years to make your gold coin back. already built gold chains, and or traders that know how to flip and manipulate granite trades to still pay .5-2 gold coin per granite are the only ones who will see profit in there TSO lifetime- GIVEN, they do not miss a buff cycle nor overpay for ore/depos.
i have 63 lvl5 coinages and i hardly run them because honestly- gold coin is a dying resrouce- meaning that their value will only likely go down. and in reality at lvl 50 (assuming your passed your gold coin upgrades) what do you really need gold coin for? nothing. But if i do run my gold chain, i do see profits.
free
frē/Submit
adjective
1.
not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
"I have no ambitions other than to have a happy life and be free"
"a free press"
synonyms: independent, self-governing, self-governed, self-ruling, self-determining, nonaligned, sovereign, autonomous; democratic
"a citizen of a free nation"
not or no longer confined or imprisoned.
"the researchers set the birds free"
synonyms: on the loose, at liberty, at large; More
historical
not a slave.
able or permitted to take a specified action.
"you are free to leave"
synonyms: allowed, permitted; More
denoting an ethnic or political group actively opposing an occupying or invading force, in particular the groups that continued resisting the Germans in World War II after the fall of their countries.
2.
not physically restrained, obstructed, or fixed; unimpeded.
"she lifted the cat free"
synonyms: unimpeded, unobstructed, unrestricted, unhampered, clear, open, unblocked
"the free flow of water"
antonyms: obstructed
PHYSICS
(of power or energy) disengaged or available.
PHYSICSCHEMISTRY
not bound in an atom, a molecule, or a compound.
"the atmosphere of that time contained virtually no free oxygen"
LINGUISTICS
(of a morpheme) able to occur in isolation.
3.
not subject to or constrained by engagements or obligations.
"she spent her free time shopping"
synonyms: unoccupied, not busy, available, between appointments; More
antonyms: busy, occupied, unavailable
(of a facility or piece of equipment) not occupied or in use.
"the bathroom was free"
synonyms: vacant, empty, available, unoccupied, not taken, not in use
"the bathroom's free now"
4.
not subject to or affected by (a specified thing, typically an undesirable one).
"membership is free of charge"
synonyms: unencumbered by, unaffected by, clear of, without, rid of; More
5.
given or available without charge.
"free health care"
synonyms: without charge, free of charge, for nothing; More
6.
using or expending something without restraint; lavish.
"she was always free with her money"
synonyms: generous, liberal, openhanded, unstinting, bountiful; More
antonyms: mean
frank or unrestrained in speech, expression, or action.
"he was free in his talk of revolution"
synonyms: frank, open, candid, direct, plain-spoken; More
archaic
overfamiliar or forward in manner.
7.
(of a literary style) not observing the strict laws of form.
(of a translation) conveying only the broad sense; not literal.
8.
SAILING
(of the wind) blowing from a favorable direction to the side or stern of a vessel.
adverb
adverb: free
1.
without cost or payment.
"ladies were admitted free"
synonyms: without charge, free of charge, for nothing; complimentary, gratis; informalfor free, on the house
2.
SAILING
with the sheets eased.
verb
verb: free; 3rd person present: frees; past tense: freed; past participle: freed; gerund or present participle: freeing
1.
release from captivity, confinement, or slavery.
"they were freed from jail"
synonyms: release, set free, let go, liberate, discharge, deliver; More
Thanks for posting a dictionary Perwin. hehe
Yeah but you are saying that rainbows are essential zero gc because you get them from explorers, though they hold a value of 2.5k gc or so.......
you need to take that into consideration when equating the PROFIT of running a gold chain.... that is like saying- I spend gems on parrots and get rainbow from explorers so i make 350% profit
how did u get rainbows from explorers? you need books to get artifact searches? how did u get books from artifact, you made them with resources or you ran alot of RBNS? did u spend gems, gold coin get explorers?... but yet getting rainbow buffs are free from explorers. think a little...
Definition of 'Capital Recovery'
1. The earning back of the initial funds put into an investment. Capital recovery must occur before a company can earn a profit on its investment.
Don't worry about me, I'm not stupid. My rainbow snows are free.
ehhh...
Hey guys! There is a gem sale going on. Please spend some bucks and buy gems. BB can use the income to keep our beloved game going.
Thanks.
So your saying after you make back you capitol investment from a specific item, there is then no such thing as profit on that item. Obviously this is a game, and anyone can do with their island what they want, which is the great thing about this game and most games in general, but please share helpful tips with people. Someone wanting to determine the worth or profitability of a gold chain is going to use the prices the raw materials and buff cost them. Draconus did the calculation of the value of RBNs compared to the drop rates of codex and value of artifact explorers and he came to the conclusion that one Artifact Expolerer costed around 350k gc. So if you are saying that you already made your money back on explorers, you need to go back to the drawing boards. You would need to of pulled in nearly 100 rainbow buffs per explorer (added in with other buff value) to make your money back. i have 21 artifacted explorers, i get about 4-8 rainbows per day, do lets say and avg of 6 per-day. So it takes around 3.5 days to get one rainbow buff per explorer- it would take nearly 350 days of constant artifact searching to hit your "Capital Recovery"- and there is no way you or anyone has reached that mark yet.
On another note, once you reach your capital recovery, why would you throw away your profits? doesnt make sense to me.
The main thing is that not everyone is like you Perwyn and gets "free" rainbows, so when someone asks for guide-like help in the general public, you cant assume that he or anyone else besides you has the pleasure (yet) to be getting free buffs, so all facts and prices need to be calculated in order to determine the profitability with gold chaining.
Anyone with a basic command of the English language can read my original post and decide for themselves if what I say makes sense to them. Not sure this game actually needs a Department of Gold Chain Advice Police of whom you seem to think you're a member.
I am just trying to help determine the actual profitability of running a gold chain in response to the actual thread by using actual values
:)
well it's not a rocket science - gold mines ALWAYS lose money (other than perhaps collapsible ones) . That simple.
With fraction of the effort you can, regardless what side of the transaction you are, sell deposits for more that you can possibly get back in return by running the mines , or buy the ore for less that you can possibly get by processing the deposits. These are SIMPLE facts. Everybody who runs mines saying it's profitable is, well "mathematically challenged" but that's ok, since there are no real-life consequences here for running a bad business.
lol, love it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perwyn
Note to self: Get rid if my coinage and gold smelter.
Additional note to self: Figure out what to do with my gold bars collection. I don't think I've seen anyone trying to sell them for what looks to be a reasonably fair price.
with the future of settlers in mind, i'll keep mine ^.^
LOL Koshko.......... It's perfectly fine to have a small number of coinages/smelters. The game/our islands are designed to easily sustain a small gold production setup without using outside inputs. I've been doing it for a very long time now. The difficult part is trying to have reasonable conversations about it on the forum. There is no absolute right way/absolute wrong way. It's a game and it's supposed to be challenging, flexible and fun. Opinions will vary, some bordering on the fanatical. It really doesn't matter, I just do what's right for me and encourage everybody else to do the same.
All buffs have inherent values that they can be sold at, even if the cost of obtaining them was nothing. That alternative cost needs to be figured into the calculations for maximum profit.
This means that 3x buffing coinages/gold smelters and selling the rainbow snows will generate MORE profit then 4x buffing coinages/gold smelters. This is assuming however you run the gold chain equally and no missed cycles for both. If missed cycles or not running a gold chain come into play, then it might be best to not run gold or use 4x buffs.
On a side note - 8 lvl 3 gold mines, rebuilt, with 45% fast 55% slow (401 deposit starting) can supply 30 coinages (20 gold smelters lvl 5) with the ore. This is assuming the mines have the same uptime as the coinages/smelters.
Sounds like you've got a real good handle on managing your gold production. Good for you.
I understand what Draco is saying.....if you can sell the parts (ore, buffs, coal, bars) for more than the whole (coins you produce) then it makes more sense to sell the parts than it does to produce the coin. And I'm prob guilty of of producing the coins for less than what I could receive for the parts, but for me, it's less work and is basically passive income.
I have a small gold mining operation, just two level 3 coinages/smelters, and I keep those and the gold mines (no fast mines yet, maybe in another week) running with Irma buffs. I figure this nets me 350 coins a day. I'm not really worried about whether I'm missing a step with those, but as I do end up expanding, this is a useful conversation to read and consider.
Since I sell 90% of my buffs that I find, I would have to take that into consideration as a cost, at least an opportunity cost. However, there is also an argument to be made for setting it and forgetting it, rather than chasing after trades, which I don't have much more room to do too many more of anyway.
8 rebuilt gold mines - 3x buffed - maxed geo talents (probably need 2-4 31 point geos) - 9624 ore from one "cycle".
a "slow" lvl 3 mine needs 1 badge, 1 exo basket to last its full duration. a fast lvl 3 mine needs 1 premium pasta.
9624 ore sells for 5293 coin.
Costs: 3k tools (100 coin), 1400 marble/hwp (100 coin) per mine. (1600 coin cost to build the mines). Then you get buff costs: badge (55) + exo (150) = 205 *(8*.55)+ 110 * (8*.45) = 1298
so thats 2898 coin to make 5293. thats a 2400 coin profit roughly every day or so off rebuilding gold mines. combine that with 20 smelters and 30 coinages and you have some pretty good margins.
I don't understand the logic of saying that rainbows are "free". If you use it to buff and gain 2000 gc because of it (exclusive of any other costs), i.s.o. selling in the T.O. for 2500 gc., how do you figure you are ahead? My logic says you lost 500 gc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perwyn