Please extend my regards to Devs, BB_Endesmor, please ask to stop removing the configs for loot on old adventures because we are soooooo used of having and depending on it. And of course adding more loot items are a plus to everything else ~!~!!!!
Valiant is majorly better omg!
Example: http://i.imgur.com/VVaNQcf.png and http://i.imgur.com/Ng7OLaX.png
LOL
Smiles;
Asiastrings :o
Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_Endesmor
Thanks BB_Endesmor!
Good change! You need more weapons for adventures, build the buildings!
I want my weapons back, weapons back, weapons back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelrond
:)
Having just become lvl 48 only a couple weeks before the change I am realizing how crappy not having cannons has loot is. I can make cannoneers, but I can build the cannon forge until lvl 49, that just doesn't not seem right. Why give me the ability to make troops I can not build the weapons for? Not receiving weapons as loot does not work with how other aspects of the game work. Not to mention since they have always been loot before players have built their islands around that concept.
Stop being silly and use trade if production is to slow.
The cannon forge is now 28 minutes faster, nice!
I for one want the weapons back in the loot drop. The cost is too high to purchase weapons or their resources, esp for elites or cannons. (which at times are MIA in the TO) If you are lucky to have the resources to build the buildings let alone upgrade them it takes forever to produce. I have no interest in pvp, and can't understand how that should have eliminated weapon drops. Since the pvp weapons also need much of the same resources the regular ones do.
Once my premium ends in a couple of weeks, (something I was never without) I will not be doing much in the way of adventures, therefore I will have no need to really spend hours on this game. If anything good came out of this, it would be the extra money I now have in my pocket, and the chance to catch up on a years worth of tv shows.
I feel sorry for the new/low lvl players who are only going to struggle. Lets see how long they last, as the only ones who are going benefit from these changes are the ones who have well established production chains.
BB_Endesmor wrote above that he is forwarding comments about the weapons back in the adventure loot. I hope that he did. :)
I would like the weapons back.
Do I want the weapons back in adventure loot? It doesn't matter to me. I can change my island around so that I can adjust and make the chains I could never use before.
However, the lower level adventures are not worth doing at all as the loot is horrid on all, if not most of them. When the rebalancing was done, it screwed everything up. The only adventures it actually helps are the higher up adventures like Outlaws, epic adventures and fairytales. That is my main concern, and if this is fixed I will be happy.
IMO it should have been like this from the start!!! there are building to make all the weapons you need or plenty in TO. I built each weapons chain as the quests came up and left them standing, do they always run? well no but if i need a certain type i run them, all in all you still only need the basic 3 types to do all your adventures b swords, bows, and horses in mass the rest are usually small losses and can be produced over time.
Idk personally i don't think the weapons as loot was a good idea, IF it was a GREAT DEAL less(Either rare finds, or small amounts) because it was beyond silly how easily it was to 'farm up' all the steel swords, cannons, xbows, etc that one would ever need in a single day of spamming an adv that takes 30min tops to run.
So sorry, I'm not sure I want to support bringing them back. Although I WOULD like to see all the OTHER loot 'returned' as it was. ALL adv ive run are horribly 'nerfed' and not a single one is worth running. Most will cost you 2x the resources to run than u can possibly get back. Its just not worth it.
Edit, added the important 'don't word' lol
agree
Island expansion is what we need then we can add these other buildings. Blowing up mountains is just a band aid.
I don't mind putting down chains to make weapons the problem is I have 0 room to put anything.
Exactly this. Especially since the last time they tried the mountain trick it involved gem only items to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Axedigger
Yes
I have to disagree, I have no problem making well enough weapons. I prefer the extra recourses.
ha ha ha. 60th post. I'll throw in my two cents too. I don't think its going to change anything though.
Come on all together now *starts chanting* Weapons Weapons Weapons
The problem is not really not having weapons in loot. The problem is the cost of building and upgrading weapons chains, slow rate of production of epic weapons and the cost of making them. On my server cannons sell for 10-12kc per 1000. That is enough to train 100 troops. Most people (without purchasing gems) don't have those founds at 48 because they are still upgrading their islands.
It takes over 120k granite (I think its 124k if I remember well) to upgrade a epic weapons chain to lev 5. Before that, chain production is just not economical, period. Even at 5 it is slow as a turtle on crouches...
Allowing players to train cannoneers at 48 but to build canon forget at 49 is clearly a feature of the game from past where weapons were part of loot.
It was mentioned few times on test forums once the "new combat balance" was raging fires there - an easy fix. Make epic weapons easier and cheaper to make and people will start making and using them. All BB did with the change was to create a huge choking point for players 26+. Higher you go - harder it gets. Once you get to 48 and are able to train the precious canoneers (those real troop savers), you better save some huge chunks of coin. On my server to have a 300 standing canons its gonna cost yah about 30-36kc. And there are days when nobody is selling even at this price...
To all your 50ies saying you like the change - sure you are making coins by producing weapons and selling them... Who are you going to sell, when people start quitting the game frustrated by running into blocks and choke points at lower levels?
A good game offers something for players at every level. It offers easy play (after all, we play for fun not to add online chores to our real ones) with a choice of challenging modes. FT advies are a choice of challenges, "pvp" could be seen as such too. Frustrating road blocks on the leveling progression is one of main reason I quit playing many games. Statistics of mmo's agree with that.
I honestly believe if I was right now in my 30ies and had to look forward to level again with those changes... I wouldn't bother. Perhaps would play still, but definitely without buying gems. Invest money into game that is mounting up artificial blocks for me, making it frustrating to progress? NO THANKS.
This might be the reason BB is now gauging new features step by step to induce people into buying gems (like postponing the expansion islands to bring up the rock removal first- purchased with gems) - gem sales slowing down.
Gem sales are slow because:
1. New players are not excited about the game as we (50eis) were a year ago. (personally I believe the game got much harder for newbies lately)
2. Old players are sitting on piles of gems bought earlier and the logical ones will not waste them on some buggy crap
3. There are no goodies during events worth spending gems on. Remember the Xmas when you could get Frozen Manors from gift boxes? Check your data BB see how was the gem sale that event and compare it to the one last year...
There are some people who will always buy new "shiny" thing even if it is crap. Unfortunately for you BB, you are running a game with very strong economical feature, requiring planning. And quite large part of your player base do that well. So, thinking you are going to boost sales by offering stick and very little or no carrot - that's day dreaming. If you wanna milk this game for gem sales for couple more years, you better get your heads into it and show us some carrot, especially during events, when people are inclined to make a purchase.
These are excellent points Plumz. I used to buy gems for the mystery boxes with Frozen Manors, and RTBN's that were available last Xmas. This year, didn't spend a dime, nor did I use any gems saved up. Half my guild has quit, the other half (including myself) just log on long enough to keep the island running. I have done 0 adventures since all the changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plumz
Basically BB is killing its own game. And for a life of me I can't understand why it is so hard for them to get it. A good game offers balance easy mode with challenges (if players wish to have them not forced like guild quests asking to run Nords).
A good game offers plenty of shiny fluff for people to spend the real money on and some good, useful features only available for real money.
A good game offers awesome incentives during special evens to induce people to spend real money on the game.
If BB don't know what their customers would like than ask them. I cannot think of anyone opposing the expansion islands. Some people don't care (they don't need them) but even those don't say anything negative about them. Here is your CLUE BB - carrot.
PVP? Lots of people tried it and gave it up because of crap rewards. We don't mind resource sink if there is anything useful from it we can get. Another clue - change rewards - you got 2nd carrot.
A starving cow will not yield you much milk. And you are slowly starving those cows (players) and killing your game. Wake up.
I designed my island around loot drops...can I change it? Sure...but it's not fun...when you do it little by little, it's not an insurmountable task...right now it feels overwhelming...
And why do it? When any intelligent person can see that the rewards are severely out of balance...changes are made with no attention to how that balance upsets game strategies? That reveals an attitude of disrespect towards their players. Upset people don't buy gems. Simple.
This is a game...supposed to be fun...relaxing...when it becomes no fun, what happens? Less activity, people play less...you lose players. We had 3 people leave our guild this weekend, giving all they had to the leader for the guild. No, they didn't hop to another guild...they didn't like the changes...and yes, some had real life things...but if the pull of enjoyment was stronger, real life doesn't have as strong a sway barring emergencies.
ARES has had fewer new players join in the last few months, and help chat has large time segments with no questions. Why? not as many newbs asking questions...all older players left who understand the game. Harder to add newbs to guilds as they are desperately snapped up at lower levels...that means they are given free stuff in their guilds, don't learn to understand the nuances of the game, so they are more likely to leave when the challenge hits them, they are higher level, and design their islands with guild backing rather than using their brains. The game nuances that are very attractive escape them, don't hook them in, and so they leave.
Something has to be redone, BB...at least, when you change things, think ahead to figure out where the impact will be and make commensurate changes. It's not really that hard...test server is there for that...and we will tell you if you get out of balance, believe you me. :) Consider yourself told.
I am not optimistic about the future of TSO.
So couple of my guildies 43 and 44 thanks to lag and risky blocks lost their hard earned ES and Xbows. Remaking 200ES and 150XB is now a problem with the prices on TO and the fact that those weapons are not available to buy every day. I also know a few fresh 50ies who lost some canons because of failed blocks. Two of them been trying to buy canons for last 3 days posting generous offers on TO with no luck.
I am hearing this from more and more people the game is artificially choked up at 48 by the inability to get some canons by players. The slow rate of production and truck load of resources needed to make them is the incentive for players NOT to sell them. It is practically not economical to run the canon (or epic weapon chain for that matter) buffed 3x.
On the top of this. anybody who lost 150-200 canons on failed block knows how fun it is to replace them It takes quite sometime to run lev5 canon forge to make 2000 canons granted you even have the resources to make that many.
It is more and more apparent and obvious BB screwed up hard core by counting that all the 50ies who have epic chains running will make enough to supply upcoming players 48+ who are just moving into the top bracket. We told BB repeatedly on test server the amount of resources and slow rate of production of those weapons will put a huge pressure and create artificial shortage on the market.
People are getting upset because of the prices of those weapons so they try to build their own epic chains. That upsets them even more because that chain is hell of expensive to build and it takes FOREVER to get anything going. More and more peps are sitting on side with nothing to do waiting for their TO offers to buy weapons to expire.
Here is the skinny if any of you BB peps read this. DO SOMETHING fast or you will be loosing players faster than you can imagine. Your game is becoming harder and harder to play for players advancing in levels and those are the target customers for your gem sales. You don't expect actually the old 50ies to dry those piles of gems they have from running the gem pits do you?
Plumz, I don't think BB has any choice anymore. EA bought them out awhile back, and EA sucks at customer service. I am willing to bet that there is no talent left on the dev team at this point. I get the feeling that we are in the death knell, with BB trying to extract every last gem sale before deep sixing the game.
I can't disagree with your logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ornias
This, right here. The weapon drop change doesn't really affect any of us who have been 50 for a year or more and have a good deal of accumulated weapon supplies. I have tens of thousands of each and a chain that I could expand if I felt like it. Good for me. The problem is what this is doing to new players and even newer 50's who don't have a few years of accumulated wealth to sit on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plumz
In my opinion, most if not all of their changes recently have been to try to mix things up (or create annoyance, depending on your point of view) for the longtime 50's without thinking for half a minute about what those changes might do to the rest of the population. I really don't care whether weapons are in loot drops or not (although I'm generally dissatisfied with the loot changes as a whole, but that's a whole different thread); HOWEVER, there needs to be a way for the younger players (younger as in level, not age) to obtain epic weapons without bankrupting their economy.
Take even the lowly crossbow. Building a crossbowsmith takes 2.5k granite and 5k ewp. Not an inconsiderable investment for a level 36 player (If I got the level wrong, let's chalk it up to old age :)). But then, let's consider that they also need titanium to build the crossbows. The titanium smelter is even more expensive at 3.5k of both granite and ewp. And those are just for level one buildings. Upgrading them will make the poor level 36 player's eyes cross. Once you consider the economic factors of buying vs. making (on Zeus, at least, crossbows are worth less than their component parts), they're left with no choice but buying or begging from guildmates.
The best advice I can give a player in this situation is to try to find a guild and hope someone there will give you a deal on them (and damas and cannon as well). Considering how many building upgrades are also requiring gold at this point in their island's life, upgrading vs. buying weapons is not an easy thing for them to balance.
Between the screwed-up economy, delightful bugs, and general difficulties BB is throwing in newer players' faces, I suspect I would just quit at this point if I were trying to level again. Even as a relatively well-to-do level 50, I hardly play at all. Send out the explorers and collect the log-in rewards, that's about all.
I hit 50 before all the changes, and while I had some reserves, dama swords and cannons weren't one of those.
With so many failed blocks, generals walking backwards, generals warping from one spot to another and getting ahead of other generals.. I just keep losing troops. The cost and speed of making cannons is just utterly stupid.
The iron economy has been broken since I started, with such a massive cost increase from copper to iron, and such a slow extraction but massive demand, you just can't keep up with it. They could have fixed it long ago, made it reasonable, which then makes steel reasonable, expert level stuff has always been poorly thought out too.
I have one fairytale left to get my castle and I probably won't have much reason to want to play a game where you pull your hair out because of bugs. Its painful to do, because nothing highlights stupid combat mechanics like the fairytales, just throwing out endless numbers of bowman and recuits to die because there isn't another way.
I am lvl 44 and in the last few days I lost 350 elite soldiers because of adventure and BB bugs, i.e. no intercept warning, inability to recall, generals stalling etc. It will take me 3 full weeks with buffs 24 hours a day to make these swords back and I just won't do it. What kind of game punishes mistakes in such a harsh manner, especially when it is the buggy games fault. Either return weapons to adventure loot so we can make these up with loot spots and drive the price of them down or make those buildings produce weapons for a realistic price and in a realistic time frame. Like what the heck do you think I will do in those three weeks I am waiting for those weapons... run witch of the swamp 50 times for a level ?
End Game, End Game, End Game...........
now accepting all of TH's stuffQuote:
Originally Posted by Snacknado
All of these new/ low lvl players were used to BB feeding them with "expert items" on a silver platter, and now that they are more difficult to obtain they are all complaining. But really- like any other computer game or video game, most people play to get to the highest level, to get in-game "rich" (END GAME), which take TIME, not to get these things handed to them easily, there needs to be some what of a challenge or else players will lose interest and there would be no reason to play this game or buy gems- and when i say "play" i mean to actually play- to level up, trade, build up your island, progress- and not to just complain about people who actually play this GAME as the GAME it is. You would think that the highest tier of weapons would be an END GAME ITEM aka made difficult to get. This is one of the few changes that benefits the "veteran" player, seems like most of the changes BB is making only hurts the long time player and benefits the newer player.
I understand difficult Snacknado, the epic weapons should not be easy to get. Unfortunately, at this moment there are not difficult, they are extremely difficult to make for players without stock piles of resources and gold. There is a tremendous difference between a lev 50 with epic weapon chain at lev 5 running buffed and a lev 48-50 player who is running titanium chain at lev 1-2. What takes you 2-3 days to make takes him/her 2-3 weeks.
You can soon expect canon prices going much higher as they are now because (at least on my server) players start see shortage of salt. Everyday there are 2-3 pages on TO of offers to buy salt and ... none gets filled. Storehouses are almost dry and no new salt is coming in, purely because of how little it drops from adventures. Lots of people run canon production, that drains SH dry but no new salt is coming. There is nothing we can do about it simply because the shortage of salt is artificially created by game design. It requires huge amount of salt to produce canons and adventures loot rewards very little.
There is literally nothing we (players) can do about this. The loot "adjustment" and removing weapons from it made this game very, very hard on players 32+ and every level you get - harder it becomes. Game can't be a chore or a frustrating obstacle. NOBODY plays a game for this reason. Game has to offer fun with elements of difficulty, NOT frustrating blocks, impossible to overcome in a timely matter.
I, personally don't want weapons back in loot. But I would like adjustments made to make the production of those weapons (especially epic) easier or (at canon case) reasonable. Players are upset because they can't progress in the game. BB has to address it somehow. And soon...
Not sure about silver platter... One third of my guildies didn't play before the loot adjustment. They had no chance of stack piling resources they need now to run their production effectively. I got people logging in for few minutes a day, checking their offers on TO to buy what they need and saying good bye in guild chat because they can't do ANYTHING without weapons. You think those people will be waiting with excitement" for a new gem sale?
Sure they can keep running DP... Quite few of them are just sick of that and would like to do other adventures. Unfortunately, they can't. Why? Because, they can't afford buying xbows from TO and they can't even make them because.. DP doesn't drop titanium. They surely don't feel like anything is "served on silver platter" to them...
Given that a sizable portion of players are basically at the verge of quitting for good, maybe they can be nice enough to sell off whatever excess they may have at a nice discount before they go. Remind me to do so after I quit after about 480k more experience ... assuming the game isn't dead and gone by then.
Down to 14 members in my guild, only need 5 to complete gq's, lol. Those of us at 50 login to check TO, buff a few things, and log off. Lower level guildies are playing sim city with their islands, few if any are doing adventures at this point. I laugh every time I see a gem sale when they continue to remove the things a lot of us bought with gems (mystery boxes with FM's, etc.). I don't care that weapons no longer drop, I do care that the drops of salt and titanium were not adjusted to allow people to make weapons. The cost to make weapons either need to be adjusted, or drops need to rise 10 fold.
+1