Master of Blocked Potential

So more on my theory the books for generals are coming: I thought I read Master of Martial Arts will not be offered at future Events. I assume the Master of Defense will also not be offered.
The eggs we get from Explorers were reduced dramatically one week into the Event, on March 24. That was after players had a week to gather many Explorer eggs without being shocked by the cutback.
Once eggs were hard to obtain, I assume most players decided to skip getting the Master of Defense. Those who bought him, like me, reported he is worthless. This should result in few players having him when we gain the right to give generals books. Those few players will then report how phenomenal the Master of Defense can be enhanced through books.
In the end, while a few players rave about the Master of Defense with books, and older players with Master of Martial Arts rave about what books do for him, the rest must buy those generals with gems.
Hopefully I wrote up correctly what these two pre-book generals can do:

Master of Martial Arts
Hit points: 1 Damage: 450-500 Accuracy: 80% Initiative: First Strike
Attack weakest target Splash Damage Travels twice as quickly to adventures
Recovers from defeat twice as fast Take 220 units
Does not get attacked until he is the last unit left

Master of Defense
Hit points: should be 5000 Damage: ? Accuracy: ?%
Attack weakest target Splash damage Travels twice as quickly to adventures
Recover twice as quickly from defeat Take 200 units

I honestly don't want to guess how to use this general and would like to know (as many players too I am sure) - what was the design idea behind this general. Is he intended for blocking or attacking? Apparently MMO industry is the only one that can do things like this.

Imagine you go to a store and buy a brand new shiny TV. You get home and open the box and... no instruction, no cables or wires. You don't know how to hook it up. You go on internet to search for some info. Company site says a general description that helps you to hook it up and get it going but you only get black and white screen.

You start searching forums for people who got same TV. They help you to navigate some things and you are able to watch 3 major channels (still in black and white). Forums are full of people who are trying to figure out how to get the picture in color and to watch more channels. Customers who paid for it demand an answer from a company yet... the company is silent. A moderator says he will forward the questions to the designers.

How long would you sit and watch 3 channels in black and white before you would take the TV back to the store for refund?

How long will it take the designing devs to answer our questions?

I am curious what the developers intended when making the Master of Defense general. It seems an interesting design choice, and different from the previous generals in the game. However, I would expect to see the same information given for this general as they have for the previous generals. In fact, they have given us the same information - the statistics. The developers do not tell the players how the game should be player; historically, the players have always surpassed the original concepts envisioned by the developers. In that, this game is no different than any other game.

One difference between this general and the previous ones is that it was available in the test server for a short time in its current incarnation. However, it is already beginning to appear in some guides and there are posts in the test server addressing the discovered mechanics. Regardless, it is the players that are going to have to work out how we are going to use what they have added to the game.

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Originally Posted by kzar

(Please note that I really do enjoy "PvP", only the name is misleading. And I do like the MoD, mostly because he reminds me the Colonel Sanders.)

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1 large bucket plz

Eh I decided to trade my way to buy the MoD. It doesn't hurt having another hero to play around with. Plus it's not like I'll ever use most of my stockpile of stuff anyway.

Koshko: I am doing the same as you.

I didn't buy the MOD (even though I could). I am not going to buy product that I can't figure a reason to be in game at all (few traps in a couple adventures is not a good reason). I asked devs to answer this general use (as intended). Didn't get an answer. So, I am not going to buy him "just in case..." I am not a child and I expect to be treated like a customer when I am one.

It is official - I am in love with the MOD..

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Originally Posted by ZachE84

I agree whole hardheartedly!!! great post and information. There is no "defense" in this game. We, as players, do ALL attacking so the name Master of Defense is also pointless and confusing. What is he defending?

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Could not have said it better there is no defense so it makes it really pointless. If the enemy camps attacked us that would be another story, I also dont understand what the thought was behind this general.
to the OP this was a very well worded and good thread.

Definitely not pointless, spent the last few weeks experimenting with him to great success!

Anyone who doesn't have him will greatly regret it.

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Originally Posted by LordB

Definitely not pointless, spent the last few weeks experimenting with him to great success!

Anyone who doesn't have him will greatly regret it.

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Could you please shed some more light on this.. Examples of where and how MoD is great success..
Till date, only time it delighted me is for the trivial task of tagging a DP, where it can kill a forest and another easy camp with just 1R, and still come out alive..
But that is hardly a benefit at higher level / higher adventures..
Lower level may find him useful on easy camps.. / forests etc.. like the example above.

I've heard he can be used for blocking on FTs though.. but nothing that I've seen myself..
So please do share if you have more examples / data.

I havn't got around to trying FT with him yet, anything else pretty much seems possible to work him in instead of a tavern general; at least the major ls adventures.

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Originally Posted by LordB

Definitely not pointless, spent the last few weeks experimenting with him to great success!

Anyone who doesn't have him will greatly regret it.

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I would like you LordB to post your results of specific adventures, camps and attacks you used him with "great success". In many of your posts you have a tendency to hype up some features. I don't justify saving 20-40R attacking a trap camp as a "great success". Back your statement with solid data please so we can all see where does this general "shine". Perhaps you will be able to convince us how useful MoD is since BB is unable to. Thanks.

I made 2.5 blocks on SLT work with him (.5 is what can be done already, either using expensive troops or cutting it mega tight with cheap units), though I can't just yet say how safe they are, according to the sim, it could be over in 6 rounds (though that's mega worst case scenario) and would utterly fail with anything below 12 rounds, but he avarages 14....I think it was a cumulated ~27% of failing even with ~5-7% for rounds 7-13 or so.

Camps in questions would be the first one out the left path and the 2nd one out the right path. The .5 is the one top left next to the leader.

Running CLT atm and don't see any use for him, aside for maybe doing a tailored sac on that L4 leader at best, otherwise looks rather meh.

Nothing on VLT for him either.

He's marginally better than a basic general in about 98% of the situations you can think of. The remaining 2% are situations already mentioned it seems. He's alright to tinker with in the blocking department but definitely not worth the gems he's selling for. Maybe we can talking the brass into upping his attack.

He does look to be useful with the right combo in that RB block that may result in a victory with troop loss (camp before WT1) if there is lag.

So...a month has passed and still no official BB statement on what was the intention when creating this general. Just FYI I bought the second one...and just use it on blocks in outlaws, but even that doesn't justify it's ridiculous cost. It has some success on a few small/medium camps...but fails miserably in comparison to a regular gen at blocking hard camps...incompetency is the word that comes to mind when looking at this whole thing.

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to a regular gen at blocking hard camps

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Small/medium/hard camps are pretty much assigned completely arbitrary, I have yet to find a correlation between type of units, amount of units, potential losses, the need of 2+ waving it, positions (which then would've included BB knowing about blocking back in the day and them going to add catapults; doubt that one) and what have you that defines camps to be easy/medium/hard.

(sigh) Play the game and experiment. I lost a a few elites on the way but he has worked completely for RB, BK, modified outlaws, bandit nest.

RB was what excited me the most though significantly speeds the farming.

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Originally Posted by LordB

(sigh) Play the game and experiment. I lost a a few elites on the way but he has worked completely for RB, BK, modified outlaws, bandit nest.

RB was what excited me the most though significantly speeds the farming.

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nothing like faster farming!!!!

building out a cannon chain is expensive GFM!! I am below 100k granite for the first time in years so farming is delicious!

Start running some 800 gc RB specials!!

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Originally Posted by webski5

his garrison looks super cool though :)

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Yes - This is the one quality he seems to have! His garrison is the best looking one of the lot.

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Originally Posted by Krzysztof1982

So...a month has passed and still no official BB statement on what was the intention when creating this general. Just FYI I bought the second one...and just use it on blocks in outlaws, but even that doesn't justify it's ridiculous cost. It has some success on a few small/medium camps...but fails miserably in comparison to a regular gen at blocking hard camps...incompetency is the word that comes to mind when looking at this whole thing.

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Huh? You expected a BB representative to actually address this? Not likely, unfortunately. I know, you were thinking of real world customer support.

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Originally Posted by Pinkleet

I didn't buy the MOD (even though I could). I am not going to buy product that I can't figure a reason to be in game at all (few traps in a couple adventures is not a good reason). I asked devs to answer this general use (as intended). Didn't get an answer. So, I am not going to buy him "just in case..." I am not a child and I expect to be treated like a customer when I am one.

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Let me know if you EVER get a response. lol (I won't be holding my breath)

Could not agree more Ceruhe. Done a lot of crunching with this guy and I can get some camps where he has up to 36 rounds of blocking (18 wino general rounds); the caveat always being the combat (in sim) has a very low low threshold (8 rounds - or 4 wino rounds). That kind of risk when using expensive troops is not worth it in most cases.

One of both would make MoD actually useful beyond what we already have:

• Give the MoD damage range of 125-200.
• Let the Mod fight 'slow' as the wino generals do. (Already mentioned, I know)

Let's face it folks, BB knew what they were doing when they put this disaster out there (Though I do love his garrison), ergo the lack of response by BB and the failure of anyone to find significant use for him by now. They just gave us a super-expensive general with chrome siding. Kind of like how they made the 'Invasion of the Nords' Adventure... for a whopping price, you too can get another Horseman Statue.

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'Invasion of the Nords' Adventure... for a whopping price, you too can get another Horseman Statue.

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The 33% chance before the loot revamp wasn't too shabby....but now, yea...someone needs to get hit on the head with a rock again.

Making the MoD slow is the most preferrable fix that would make him worth his money instantly and it still won't be a game changer like the MMA turned out to be.

I need to learn how to sim with him though.

I've found this sim to be the most useful for the MoD. https://546e810ba39faf8b8d5e4e7971e6...dfb3BfRUtxZTg/

The graph that's available is quite interesting. (You access the graph by clicking on the results bar near the top. A small white hand appears when you've hovered over the right place to click.) You'll note that the minimum rounds on the results bar is 9, yet when you look at the graph, the likelihood of 9 rounds is .07% and if you add the percentages of 9 thru 12 rounds, anything below 13 rounds has a 1.85% chance of happening. So yes, there's still a chance of failure, but the graph puts it in perspective and it's easier to assess the risk involved. This particular block is one I use for Bandit Nest. It's held for 14 runs so far. Note: Be sure to include the camp option when simming. There's a no camp option and the results will be completely different when using it. Note2: The MoD is under LEG in this sim, his original name of Legendary Veteran.


http://i.imgur.com/L1Goj14.png

I fail to understand what is the advantage of this block versus 44S 67E with reg general. Care to explain?

It took a while for me to notice that this simulator also includes victory destruction time. So in the graph both lose and victory of 14 rounds take the same total time. Nice.

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Originally Posted by Jani321

I fail to understand what is the advantage of this block versus 44S 67E with reg general. Care to explain?

It took a while for me to notice that this simulator also includes victory destruction time. So in the graph both lose and victory of 14 rounds take the same total time. Nice.

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In response to

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Originally Posted by Ceruhe

I need to learn how to sim with him though.

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I posted what I've figured out in an attempt to be helpful. Never claimed there was an advantage.

The following graph is the one I did without the camp included. I didn't include it in my 1st post as it didn't seem relevant to my response to Ceruhe. Notice that there's virtually no difference on the defeat rounds between the run with camp and the one without. What does change are the victory rounds which include camp destruction time when the camp option is included in the sim. Both runs are 50,000 iterations.

http://i.imgur.com/15tHuDY.png

The advantage is pretty much any important LS adventure can now be run without ever having to wait for a tavern general to get there....
If the advantage of that is lost on anyone...........

I haven't had anyone tag a FT ls with a gen in 6 months.

LOL - I have not seen anyone tag a FT ls with a wino general, EVER! Last one I saw try that, the player completed the adventure in spite - before the wino general arrived.

I have been working with the Master of Defense (MoD) general, looking for some use for it. One potential use I was looking for was in 0-win situations, where the enemy camp is killed completely but it kills all of the troops. However, even these do not appear to be a potential use, as there is still too much damage for the general to survive despite all of the enemies being killed.

As it stands, the general is simply another Battle Hardened General (BHG, 200 troops, faster speed) with a different skin, of no more use than the grim reaper general or General BigHelmet. The difference is that a BHG costs 1,250 gems and General BigHelmet costs 1,495 gems, while the Master of Defense costs 5,250 gems. While I can accept a 245 gem markup to get a 7th BHG, if you ignore that every Halloween you can get another BHG in the form of the Grim Reaper, it is laughable to try to sell the same general at over four times the price.

Most people I know picked up the MoD at the event, with the hope that the developers would someday get around to fixing it. I do not know that anyone has actually purchased the general for gems, and it would be interesting to see the purchase rate for that item. From the perspective of Blue Byte, the purpose of having items in the gem store is for players to spend gems that they have purchased for money. If no one is buying the item from the store, then it is a poor investment in development. In addition, since many players bought the MoD on the hope it would be fixed, not having fixed it yet dissuades players from doing the same in the future during events. On the other hand, having a MoD that is useful would encourage players to purchase the general. As shown player behavior of the Master of Martial Arts (MMA) general, players are willing to spend gems for useful items, in multiples, even at the 6999 price. Therefore, it is likely that if the MoD is useful, people who purchased before will likely buy as will people who do not currently have them. While it is possible that players who did get the general during the event may complain that they did not get one, all players had the opportunity to buy the MoD originally, as long as they were in the game at the time. And the same players will still have the opportunity to get one for gems, as well as with the next event.

There are different options for making the MoD useful. The simplest one is to place the general at the front of the defense queue, making opponents drain the hit points of the general before they can damage the contained troops. This is what many people envision when they read the description. This should be fairly simple, as some island bosses have the same property. Another idea is to make it more difficult to damage the troops, giving them effectively more hit points. I don't think players would be that picky about how the general is fixed, as long it is something that is useful and a good value.

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I do not know that anyone has actually purchased the general for gems,

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I saw somebody, 1...don't remember the name.
I've been tempted to buy the second one simply to have Master of Wheelchair and Legendary Wheelchair both together....fortunately I've still been sane about it.

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The simplest one is to place the general at the front of the defense queue, making opponents drain the hit points of the general before they can damage the contained troops.

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The problem with that is likely that BB needs 10 years worth of fresh grads to figure out how to drain 4999 dmg from him and then switch to the normal units.
Quickest, easiest and potentially best fix is to make him a slow Gen. Yea, not everybody blocks and will remain useless for those players...then again we also got Gen Log, who pretty much is another useless/expensive BHG.

For all I care they can take him 1:1 and make a Marshall out of him...at least his 5k HP would have some blocking use to save troops...then again...artificial limits and...WAY TO START MY RAGE ON THAT PATHETIC THING AGAIN!!!!!oneoneone111elven!

I actually think some of the fresh grads might even grasp the idiocy of this general design. But when they make an intelligent suggestion to improve him somehow, they are faced with the real purpose of this general existence in his current form - gem sink :)

At some level, all the purchases in the shop are gem sinks. However, if no one is purchasing the MoD general, it does not function any better as a gem sink than it does as a general in the game.

I got it during the event and have used it like 3 times.

It would be ok if it was a slow gen, make a decent blocker. It serves no purpose currently. Honestly as many fast gens as we have access to now, more slow gens would be good.

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It would be ok if it was a slow gen, make a decent blocker. It serves no purpose currently. Honestly as many fast gens as we have access to now, more slow gens would be good.

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That would be BB admitting to support blocks, which they won't do to save face.

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Originally Posted by BB_Endesmor

Very interesting post, I will forward it to the developers!

Cordially,
BB_Endesmor

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Please ask them what happened to the General 'Tage' gave the specs for BB. Was in a post answered by me some time ago on Prestage... (coord).. hmmm was defense genl.

(hahaha those that know will understand, lolol Lou)...