New players - Game Viability

If I joined this game today.

I would join at level 1.

After a little time playing, I would learn what it takes to get to level 50 .

Getting to level 50 would be OK , Until the point, that I saw a guy on (MY LEVEL 74 Gazza1 Author)

At this stage my heart would sink, I thought I found a good game with a nice chat network!

What I would do at this stage was see what I have to do, to catch Gazza1!!!!!!

Yeah RIGHT! - I just joined this game BUT to be a "PLAYER" in this game?... "NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN"

I have a simple fix for this.

I call it GAME VIABILITY FOR NEW BLOOD

As the leading level player in my server - I would love it if a new player - was introduced to the game with a level (Maybe 10 levels behind highest player - So "64" NOW) ,buildings (That a player might have at this stage taking into account events) , resources (To really join the game)

Now if let's say someone - A real part time player - dropped below new player levels??????????????

Very easy option here - NOTIFICATION - Your Island has dropped below new player standards - would u like assistance?

Player clicks YES!

Level increases - Supply's arrive - Buildings upgraded...

OMG now we have game viability yes?

I enjoyed the leveling process. Yes, some folks were already at seemingly towering levels when I joined the game. It was fun catching up with most everyone. The differences in levels adds depth to the game as well. Folks play for different reasons. Eliminating the experience of starting from the ground floor and building your own seems like a loss to the experience of the game (except for alts).

These topics you open are quite thought provoking and very much worth the time reading and responding.
Please continue.
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I have to disagree with this proposal. Why? The purpose of a game is to have fun.
To that we all agree, but it goes beyond that. Except for solitaire, games are intended to facilitate social interactions. In this game, chat is the socialization vehicle.

I belong to a guild.
I never needed the game to tell me I was falling behind. Guild officers took on that duty.
I never needed the game to give me assistance, I got all the help I needed and more from the guild members and from all levels.
I find over time my social network has expanded outside of guild chat to include many members that hang out in the TO chat.
"intended to facilitate social interactions"

If it weren't for chat, I would have quit a long time ago. In my opinion, this game, if played as solitaire, vacuums worse than worse. IMHO, this game demands socialization.

You can't win this game and that leads to tons of generosity. Need a little help? Don't be shy - just ask.

People play for different reasons.
This is a non-competitive game unless players choose to go head-to-head.
This is a non-competitive game unless a player decides he actually wants "to catch Gazza1!!!!!!" and only if Gazza1 decides he does not want to be caught. In that scenario, both have decided to go head-to-head in a leveling race. That's fine if that is what the players want. Everything is by choice.

The game, through it's task book and quests, is designed to teach the new player the game fundamentals and as the player level rises, more of the complexities of the game. To deny that learning experience would definitely lead to player frustration and massive waves of new player exodus. A player can clear level 20 in a day.

There are many things in TSO that can and should be improved, but implementing Success for Every Player is not something I can agree with. Success has to be earned to have any value.

What I can see as an improvement is to automatically place all new players in one or more new player guilds - limited to 50 players, perhaps, and allow high level volunteers to moderate the new player guilds. Get those early social networks off to a good start and a lot of the issues you bring up for discussion are easily resolved.

Games, after all, are not ends to themselves, but rather games are intended to facilitate social interactions.

Every new player has the chance to catch up with you at lvl 75, I think the problem is the opposite: many players reach lvl 50 without understanding how to run an adventure, or how the production works. The way I see it, the big problem we had was that new players could not catch up on generals, or scouts, but now the problem is solved. Maybe instead of asking BB to make it even easier for them we should stop gifting huge amount of resources (yes, I am guilty too), and teach them what we learned about production and adventures. A bit less already made guides for every possible gens combo, a bit more teaching on how to make your own guide, or how to build an island that will cover your needs by lvl 50 at least.

I dont think that the leveling process is what would be so discouraging to me if I just started so much as the inability to get the generals that it takes to level faster.

waiting almost a year to get to a certain level and for the right event to come around ....or, needing to drop alot of cash to buy generals would maybe be what would force me to find a new game.

I think that having a way to get veteran/MMA/Major general at earlier level , providing newer players with the ability to run bigger adventures would both help players get to higher levels faster, while still starting from the bottom to gain experience.


Another problem that this game has run into is that newer players and players up towards Gazza1 level have no way to properly interact together , level 65 plus players dont want anything to do with a stealing from the rich loot spot, and newer players cant even do a VLT let alone an arabian adv.

When I was a lower level , I was still able to play the game with level 50 players , nowadays the only ls swapping that we see is between those over level 50.

Loving the few response's thus far...

Maybe start the game at lvl 50 for new players - with a Major and 2 MMA?


Discuss, they are watching!

i am sorry i feel that ev1 should keep it the way it is

I think the most relevant point is that all of us posting have gone through the difficult beginnings, running adventures without the better generals, in and out of guilds, the whole ball of wax.

Yet here we are, having a conversation about how new players can and should be introduced to the game and its workings and what it takes to keep the speed bumps from being too discouraging.

Again, a lot of us survived the early levels and I think, perhaps, we are better at the game because of the early trials and tribulations.

I do think is most worst and much more likely new blood quits between level 50 to 75 than from level 1 to 50. You have a carrot in front of you (not calling you horse, just saying) till level 64, so you play to get it. After that you have a big empty universe and nothing to get (except millions of millions of XP). I did think myself to quit several times already after last carrot.
Adventures are fun... but doing them one after another, always the same.... became boring, really boring

I have to disagree with your proposal Gazza. Like Zman, I like the levelling process. I think also that starting at lvl 1 is better and give more time for new players to understand how the game works and how to run adventures.

I agree with those saying that the way the game is set up is fine. My only advice would be to give new players quick access to the guides for the tutorial quests and island clearing and 0-production quests. Or figure out some way to make the archives more...attractive/noticeable.
I don't see many new players being intimidated by higher level players unless they are in a guild that is pushy about the speed of their progression. I've played this game for over 5 1/2 years [w/o taking breaks] on this server and I'm still progressing at my own pace...to level 57 now during the event.
Yeah, I could probably be right up their with the top level players, but to my style of play, that would be monotonous...grinding through adventure after adventure only trying to run them as fast as I can using guides that others came up with. Instead, I make my own guides. To me, minimization of losses and potential losses for fails is the fun in adventuring. I've even learned to make my own block positioning.
I think that the onus is on the guild leaders to encourage the players in their guilds to play however gives them the most enjoyment in order to keep them active.

I have to LOVE!!!

This time I ask for conversation - I get mixed comment's

Tells me and (I hope) the game my last conversation was ALL AGREE

This time different points of view

All are welcome!

I myself think the game should remain the way it is as far as leveling is concerned. Many players would be upset and quit if the logged on and saw a new player the same level as he or she is even more so if they had spent real money on game

I DO NOT agree with this at all Gazza. players these days have everything, and I mean everything handed to them - need resources? ask in TO and a dozen people will tell you to post a fish for what you can hold. need buildings, generals, or other gem items? you can buy most off trade, pretty cheap, and can have others gifted to you, or just wait and BB will "donate" a fancy general to your island when it's event time. there is nothing wrong with lower level players (or any player for that matter) using tavern generals to do a WOTS or HB and if "THEY" want (if they like/enjoy the game), they might spend money and get a BHG or MMA. the point being, every player that loves/likes/enjoys this game, works hard for what they have and works hard for each level they gain, and nothing, NOTHING, should ever take the place of that. the leveling up process in this game is one of the reasons that make it a GREAT game (the other being the chat). if a newbie is unable or unwilling to tackle that process, then maybe this game isn't for them and they should go play chutes n ladders or candy land.

I, too like many others, feel that it should remain as it is as far as the process is concerned but like someone mentioned, nothing new after level 64 is not motivating anymore at all. I have probably been the slowest to level up since I hit 63/64.

Respectfully, I am going to disagree with you on this Gazza, I found the leveling to be a rewarding and educational experience. Now with the additions of the flying purple slot machine, there are a bunch of ways to level faster. This year was my first Easter event, I started right around the Crisis event after 2016 Easter. With a helpful guild, the Crisis event was fun while challenging. Like others have pointed out, I found generals and explorers to be the most difficult to catch up on, but even that has been remedied with the recent limit increases in the merch.

I used to play World of Warcraft, and a few years ago they created a mechanism during an expansion where a player could create a new character and boost them to the old max level, then work their way through the new content to reach the new max. What happened was we had a bunch of new characters that people did not know how to use properly. Many of them abandoned the boosted character because it wasn't fun to play (without the leveling experience, they lost the early nuances of how to play the character).

So if we bring this back to TSO, think about starting someone at 50 with a full island to populate: killing the bandits is less fun as the loot and experience is meaningless at 50. Buildings get dropped without thought to their placement since they did not have the leveling time to learn the value of placement near storehouses. How many times have you thought to yourself, "if I started over, I could build a far more organized and balanced island." But that only works with the knowledge and experience you gained through the game play.

No, I think the leveling should start at 1 and let the guilds and community to help the new players with resources :)

crawl walk run... :)

I've been playing less than a year, 292 days according to the "play for a year" achievement counter (assuming I've logged in every day....assume that I have). I'm lvl 62, which is high enough that leveling beyond that point holds no specific interest for me. I accomplished this with a great deal of help from a friendly mentor and a great deal of help from my wallet for generals and premium.

I had a lot of fun along the way. Learning how to manage inventory and supply chains, wrestling with the fluctuating market for goods, finding ways to utterly conquer adventure islands, building my population and armies to allow me enormous flexibility. All of it was enjoyable for me. Now though, I just sit atop my busy island and rebuild mines and reapply buffs. Level 75 is not within reach...heck, 65 is not even within sight. I'd need to work as hard as I did to get to 62, just to get to 65. I'm more or less done unless I decide to become the master of some corner of the market.

I can't imagine how I would come to enjoy the game if I started where I am now.

I Think that the way it is right now is fine, but the only complaints that i hear is that people at lower levels seem to have trouble getting gem pits/generals because of the lack of gems. i know that recently there have been new ways to get gems (Excelsior) and such but players are still struggling to get gems. now i have seen and know many people who have never spent a nickle on this game and are doing fine but yet most people have to buy gems. but i have seen many players at low levels get discouraged and not want to play because of this problem.

I think it should be a little easier to level up just like more quests because at my level (55) it can get hard i don't do many adventures mostly because i don't have the time but i think more quests should be given out because i currently have no new quests in my quest book

Gazza1, I disagree on the support for to increase the player levels unless it is earned.

People will loose interest to maintain an account that they have not earned levels so if I login in once a month and get additional resources I would make it to the same level a person who has logged in every day managed. The guy logging in everyday will get disillusioned and the guy getting support will disregard the value of earning their level. Also people will start hitting level cap sooner and loose interest and leave the game.

I did not purchase any of my generals with cash but I do remember my guild helping me get my first Veteran General during my first Easter event of 2016. Adventures run prior to Vet General were tough so I appreciated the Fast Generals better. I joined the game just before the Christmas 2015 event and saw the importance of joining a guild during the event. Although, I would like a regular event to keep game interest between Easter and Halloween like the intermittent Soccer event.

Although I see some people without guilds in chat, the think we already have a Game Viability mechanism in place which are the Guilds and you can choose a guild to match your style of play from totally relaxed to really intense.

I disagree. I think the game should remain the way it is. Level is not a precise measure of a player's experience in the game but it is an indicator. I am level 60 and there are players lower level than me that can do more in the game because they have played longer, accumulated more resources/special buildings etc. but a player's level DOES mean something and those higher than me DESERVE to be. If we start handing out levels for nothing then it takes away from what everyone else has accomplished and then the level number ends up meaning nothing.

I believe you should leave the levels as they are, the quests in the beginning are there to guide and teach you the game. I had a lot of fun getting to know people from all over the world. I use combat sims to make my own guides when I have time, and other peoples guides when I am short on time for an adventure. I have been playing about 5.5 years and would not have stuck to it, if everything was just handed to me.

Sorry but me needs to totally disagree ... the game should not be made easier for new player cause the first levels are where you learn the game ... you learn to build your island ... sort though the guilds .... gather info on how to play ... gather the links ... with out this time you end up with players who expect everything and then wonder why they are unable to do adv or are always needin help doin the adv ... me best suggestion is to make sure that all new players recieve the links to info and combat simulators ... give them the ability to make thier own decisions and the willin to make them

Having my son recently start playing I have found that since I helped him level and supply him stuff, he lost interest too quick because he didnt have to work for it. ( I took him on a 2nd thief at level 17) he jumped from 17 to 33 quick and found he didnt have the building chains set up that he needed so he got frustrated. After seeing this I kinda wish I did not help him level. So I dont think starting people out at a high level would help that much. Now if I could get him generals and such at a normal cost I would get him that stuff to help him do it himself. I think better generals and explorers at lower levels would help more. This way they level themselfs quicker. The cost for gems to buy him what he needs is way too high for this at the moment. Perhaps a one time Package per account that is a starter pack that has 2 improved Silos, 2 improved Farms, 1 friary, 1 Major, 1 Battle gen, 1 MMA,2 fast geo, 3 schools, 2 improved storehouses for around 35$ I would get this and he would be better off. this would have to be a limited 1 time only per account thing. It would get people into the game, also it would bring in a fair amount of money for the company as alot of older players would likely buy it for a 3rd Major

i think i have seen this work somewhere..... i cant think of the game or guild but i was really excited to play and i went up so fast that i was nearly self sufficient in just one month. everyone in every guild should look into this..

I understand what you are trying to propose, but I have to say that I completely disagree. What hooked me on this game was leveling process as it is. It was so fun and exciting going through the levels and learning how everything works. I would have been lost if I started at level 50 (for example)- I would have gotten frustrated / given up for sure had it not taken me through the levels step by step. I liked working to build my island up and chatting with people to get tips on how things work best - that was the FUN part - the whole point of playing is to have FUN, to feel good about your accomplishments. Seeing other peoples' islands and all the great stuff they have gave me incentive to keep trying harder. I wouldn't change a thing.

I have to agree here. I game into the game at level 1 and have enjoyed leveling up. I understand that it can be frustrating for some players, however, i do think most are in the game to enjoy it. Leveling up, accomplishing the various tasks, learning from other players, working to catch up to the higher levels, that to me is the best part of the game.

collection quests to make something beautiful! like a frank and stein slow last attack gen, or collect all 7 dwarves to make a cannoneer general. slow and both low unit capacity kill off's. its the greed for something trivial that creates the desire to grind. like quests that lead to watchtowers or other collection based buildings on the same principle "collect many parts"

Am far more curious as to WHY Gazza1 keeps playing? What does Gazza1 think will happen or how he will feel once he hits 75?

I remember when I hit 50 there were no upper levels available....It seemed time to move on to another game although I had come to this game to unwind and gain back Real Life after a couple years far too engaged in Evony....

One of the things that I like about The Settlers is figuring out how to maintain sustainability....To create a world that continues preferable with less and less daily input from me....

But once levels 51-75 became available and new lands for home island there were new reasons to stay engaged although I do my best to balance input against demanding needs of Real Life....

Perhaps Gazza1 is beginning to have the inevitable feeling of having tapped out this game....That would seem to be inevitable especially as more players approach 75....Even more so once many player reach 75.....Will that demand introduction to Levels 75 -100 to keep players like Gazza1 engaged?

Rare Air in Real Life generally is a Boot to Move One to something else Bigger and Better.....

As a player who struggles with a Guild in decline who has slowly struggled to get to level 58 it is difficult for me to relate to the current concerns of Gazza1.....But I do understand what he is trying to address in terms of more opportunities to advance faster....I would like to see greater opportunities to earn 5X more XP for Arabian adventures....More events that offer resource boosts like pumpkins and eggs....

Sure, some more ways to motivate players at various levels to speed the process does make sense but simply leap frogging levels does not make any sense in terms of learning this game nor enjoying it....

I was glad to reach level 50 as i was to the top level, then the level limit was raised and i do not feel the same urge to go forward.
don't get me wrong, i think it was a good thing to raise top level up to 75 (eternity!). Now if i was to start today i wish the levels would go up faster at some point around level 40 and up. I am more of an island builder than a combat-adventure-repeat-with-the-same-pattern player, so level up is sometimes a long haul when in lower levels. (no random enemies in the camps nor random maps gets me bored)

If people start the game at a high level, for example level 60, they would feel overwhelmed by the complexity of the game at that level. There are so many ways of playing at that level that it would lead to indecision. Worst of all, I can't imagine a new playing wanting to continue in a game when they start at a level with over 10 million XP needed to level up for the first time. Leveling provides most of the drive to keep playing by creating a sense of accomplishment. Being a player the doesn't have as much time to play as I used to and never took much pleasure in just doing constant repetition of a few adventures I lost heart after reaching level 60. There were a few months were I didn't even bother to do any adventures because leveling just seemed too far away to care about. I would never stick with a game as a new player that started without close goals to reach for. This suggestion would end this game.

I have played more games than I can count. Every once in a while I come across a game that gives you a level boost. Nothing wrong with that if you are used to the game mechanics. If you are not familiar then it is very difficult to "catch up" with those who have been playing for a long time. IMHO, starting from the beginning and actually working your way through the ranks is one of the best ways to play any game. Many games give you an item or two that will help you level. That may be one way to appease some people. That way the player would b able to learn the game without missing out on getting used to some of the basic skills in the game.

Can't change the leveling process. That'd be like putting noob pre-meds into the fourth year of med school to keep them motivated. Or having the hillbilly select the wine next time you're dining at a French restaurant. The subtle complexities found at the higher levels is best mastered by the necessary process of leveling, itself.

But Gazza1 makes an interesting point which addresses the valid concern that too many new players quit almost immediately. He (correctly, I think) asserts that the daunting thought of all the time and effort required to reach the game's higher levels is discouraging to many. So the issue becomes somewhat paradoxical: the very rewards for sticking it out are simultaneously discouraging because they seem so far away.

One solution might be a mentoring pool: a group of willing players who'd volunteer (maybe with some special rewards for doing so) to shepherd new players through the first (25? 30?) levels, providing the noobs with advice, materials, basic rewards. Less obviously, the mentors would be providing incentive to keep playing.

Another idea might be a series of level-appropriate difficult-to-complete quests which enable newer players to jump multiple levels at once. The resources required to complete such requests would be comparable to those required to advance the normal way, but with an abbreviated time period. The effort required would be greater, meaning the noob would demonstrate a strong commitment and be rewarded appropriately.

My two cents.

I started 5 months ago and am level 44 now.

I've enjoyed leveling up so far. Figuring out how to play TSO is part of the fun.
What made leveling easier and more fun has been the help my guild has given me.

What we need is a good tutorial that pulls together the following information (which came slowly for me):
Adventures, combat, generals, blocking, fast vs slow attacks, lootspots, tagging, combat sims

Part of the satisfaction of the game is struggling to progress, and then seeing that progress. If players miss the early progression, then they won't appreciate the rewards that come.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gazza1

If I joined this game today.

I would join at level 1.

After a little time playing, I would learn what it takes to get to level 50 .

Getting to level 50 would be OK , Until the point, that I saw a guy on (MY LEVEL 74 Gazza1 Author)

At this stage my heart would sink, I thought I found a good game with a nice chat network!

What I would do at this stage was see what I have to do, to catch Gazza1!!!!!!

Yeah RIGHT! - I just joined this game BUT to be a "PLAYER" in this game?... "NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN"

I have a simple fix for this.

I call it GAME VIABILITY FOR NEW BLOOD

As the leading level player in my server - I would love it if a new player - was introduced to the game with a level (Maybe 10 levels behind highest player - So "64" NOW) ,buildings (That a player might have at this stage taking into account events) , resources (To really join the game)

Now if let's say someone - A real part time player - dropped below new player levels??????????????

Very easy option here - NOTIFICATION - Your Island has dropped below new player standards - would u like assistance?

Player clicks YES!

Level increases - Supply's arrive - Buildings upgraded...

OMG now we have game viability yes?

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Absurd.

If you want to play the game the way the OP suggests start an account on the test server. The result is a cookie cutter island where production is not optimal for your game play style. It would result in a situation where everyone is producing exactly the same amount of resources therefore you may as well hang a "Gone Fishing" sign on the trade office. Most worrying is it would result in a exploit big enough to swallow Canada.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Artillerist

Having my son recently start playing I have found that since I helped him level and supply him stuff, he lost interest too quick because he didnt have to work for it. ( I took him on a 2nd thief at level 17) he jumped from 17 to 33 quick and found he didnt have the building chains set up that he needed so he got frustrated. After seeing this I kinda wish I did not help him level. So I dont think starting people out at a high level would help that much."...." Perhaps a one time Package per account that is a starter pack that has 2 improved Silos, 2 improved Farms, 1 friary, 1 Major, 1 Battle gen, 1 MMA,2 fast geo, 3 schools, 2 improved storehouses for around 35$ I would get this and he would be better off.'

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Wouldn't that repeat the initial mistake? My husband tried playing too, and I did the same as you. Sure, part of it was the lack of accessibility from the game, but my handing out resources played a part too. I still remember how much I hated this game the 1st few levels. I started, quit, didn't find any other that I liked. Then I gave it a 2nd try, got some good advice (no help tho) , discovered the advs, and here I am today

the issue with this is that it a game or supply and demand, strategy and growing to fast can lead to major imbalances, tho I'm still classed as lower lvl 48 I'm by no means a new player just looking at my island you can see I've been here a while, in fact, i'm one of the old players 5yrs next month, Starting at a higher lvl you dont gain the same insights into how to adv, what the difference is between 1,2,3 players - co-op and ventures some would grab one quickly and cope others would leave because they have no idea what they're doing.

Better to help the newbies give them the help with resources, info, guides and sharing ideas, so they can grow and learn at a pace they're comfortable with, offer support to them to help them grow, i've recently seen someone go from lvl 1 to 64 in less than a year and he's always helping newbies because as he said we all helped him now it's he turn to help others starting out

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NicciKiwi

the issue with this is that it a game or supply and demand, strategy and growing to fast can lead to major imbalances, tho I'm still classed as lower lvl 48 I'm by no means a new player just looking at my island you can see I've been here a while, in fact, i'm one of the old players 5yrs next month, Starting at a higher lvl you dont gain the same insights into how to adv, what the difference is between 1,2,3 players - co-op and ventures some would grab one quickly and cope others would leave because they have no idea what they're doing.

Better to help the newbies give them the help with resources, info, guides and sharing ideas, so they can grow and learn at a pace they're comfortable with, offer support to them to help them grow, i've recently seen someone go from lvl 1 to 64 in less than a year and he's always helping newbies because as he said we all helped him now it's he turn to help others starting out

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Good point. I'm a slow leveler because I play less for adventuring and XP than economics and an over-the-top island aesthetic. Those with whom I joined are currently between level 65 and 71 (I am a lowly almost-56). Pace is a significant consideration.

I emphatically disagree with this proposal, not only does it devalue the time and effort us long standing players have put into the game to accomplish what we have, but the long standing players who are not as high as some, would be left behind and possibly quit due to the lack of regard for the faithful long standing players of the game. Many games are ruined and fail due to the massive "upgrades" made to a game to make it overly easy for new comers to attain or surpass the ones that spent the time and effort to accomplish what new comers can all of a sudden accomplish with a fraction of the time/effort.