Chat language Rules

I would submit that wile English is the predominant language in America, America is a polyglot nation, by definition, a nation of immigrants.
As such there are many "Foreign" words common in our daily use

Some use Dinero when referring to money others will greet friends with Ciao, or Hola and Buenos Dios.

What I am saying, I guess is that the chat rules concerning foreign language should reflect the reality that is America

One can't pass through Miami for instance without encountering Spanish in Signage

Any comment would be appreciated

I agree Barney, I don't want to see full chat in another language but common phrases and the like used in normal chat should not be a problem and V4lkirie is the only one I've ever seen have a problem with it.

Zeus1 has a very nice player community, we help new players out and cooperate on everything.

That is what games are about, having fun, not winning.

While we are doing questlines and doing adventures sometimes a MOD comes along and bans you from the game

for an absolutely ridiculous or no reason at all

Can you please stop doing that? It will improve the game a lot

Kinda silly how we can't speak anything but English considering the US is supposed to be a cultural melting pot. We also pride ourselves on free speech. While BB is a company, it would still be nice to see the chat rules on the US server reflect the region.

For many reasons, I agree the U.S. server should be constrained to English in global chat. This is why I support the English-only rule -- I always assumed such a regulation was implemented and enforced to keep the conversation going in English alone. I support this concept.

However, the rule seems to have morphed into a very rigid English-only rule where absolutely no non-English terms are permitted.

Considering over 50 percent of English comes directly from Latin and French, the definition of an "English word" is not always clear. For example, tonight I enjoyed Italian lasagna for dinner but I felt I could not say that word in global without violating the rule and risking a chat ban, which come with little or no warning and mind-numbing frequency. ("Lasagna" does not translate to English, I checked.) At this point, I avoid using terms such as connoisseur, hors d'oeuvres, apéritif, digestif, bon appétit and similar in global chat because I risk a chat ban, even though those words enjoy frequent use in normal English conversation. (I am a food and wine writer, please forgive all the food references.) There are other French words that are also commonly used in English conversation but I am willing to use them in global chat because either the moderators seem to accept them as English or they simply don't know the terms are actually French. This list includes such words as petite, chic, menu, silhouette and similar.

I will admit I can sometimes take my attempts at humor too far but I have tried to tone it down and behave in global chat. Further, I understand acting as a moderator is a thankless job and I do not wish to make moderators' jobs more difficult. I repeat that I support the English-only rule but I wish moderators would relax their rigid enforcement when simple non-English words and phrases are used in passing while the conversation is being conducted in English.

It's perfectly acceptable to me to have moderators keep the conversation limited to English but doing so by prohibiting every word or phrase that's not strictly English is absurd and makes global seem harshly over-policed to newcomers.

I am curious: is there a Canadian server where both English and French are accepted?

as for languages, I'm from Europe and think some languages are taught in highschool in the US

I always translate when I speak a foreign language so you can learn something

I will always speak English, French, Dutch, German, Jiddish and Gibberish in game chat, if that is not allowed you should give me a permaban

cheers! U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kArCRjT29w

Zeus1 has a nice community, we help out lower players and have fun together.

there are a lot of online games, but this one is very nice to play

but now and then a MOD walks in and bans all the players, that is not good for anyone

Moderation should make the game better, not worse.

/I merged your double post - BB_Trafffer

Certainly, the English only rule on the US servers has been in place since closed beta, and there was always an unwritten and/or suggested by Mods invitation to people who wish to converse in a language other than English to simply move to another global or private chat -- exactly like discussing religion and politics which also are against TOS in Global-1. The operative words being converse and discuss.

This is a classic case of the spirit of the law vs. the letter of the law. The spirit of the law or in this case, rule, is what is intended by the devs rather than the letter of the rule being enforced down to each and every word used. The simple use of an occasional phrase, greeting, or word peppered throughout conversations easily adheres to the spirit of the rule (unless someone is using it to circumvent the auto censors which is against TOS) and is miles away from conversing in a language other than English.

If I go to the German servers, I expect to be asked to converse in German, the Polish servers, Polish, etc. That being said, there are English words that do not translate into either of those languages and are no doubt used on those servers the way we would use zeitgeist, pirogi, etc here.

I fully support English in Global-1 but with common sense being the rule when it comes to interspersing foreign words and phrases. In nearly 10 years of playing (have been here since closed beta) I've never seen anyone enforce the rule for simple words and phrases -- just reminders given if someone goes off on a swearing tangent in another language, etc. That being said, I rarely go into Global-1 anymore so cannot speak to how or when the rule is being enforced these days, and would hope that common sense is being applied although it appears from the original post that perhaps that is not the case.

Solution: GM, please clarify in the official rules section if all use of foreign words is prohibited, or if conversing in foreign languages is prohibited. This will be helpful to both players and Mods.

Until then, ciao !

ShuttlePilot
Guild Leader, The Creators

How do you moderate if people are speaking all different languages, unless you also have moderators who speak all different languages, which for the US presumably you will not or would just not be worth the effort? Although there are plenty of other languages spoken and no official language, English is still the predominant language with over 95% of the population speaking it.

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Originally Posted by Gwalben

How do you moderate if people are speaking all different languages, unless you also have moderators who speak all different languages, which for the US presumably you will not or would just not be worth the effort? Although there are plenty of other languages spoken and no official language, English is still the predominant language with over 95% of the population speaking it.

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No one is advocating multiple languages in global. I believe Barney is asking that the English-only rule be narrowly interpreted to mean all global conversation should be conducted in English.

I also support English-only in global chat. But I believe Barney is sensibly requesting that the English-only rule not be broadly interpreted to prohibit all non-English words and phrases, particularly those that enjoy widespread use in common English conversation. Currently, the English-only rule is being enforced so strictly that ordinary terms are not allowed in global English conversation because the words in question are not purely of English origin.

We appreciate the moderators' efforts and recognize that theirs is a difficult and thankless job at times. If this rule is clarified the way Barney is asking, it should make moderators' jobs a little easier and eliminate a frustration for players who frequently chat in global.

I have no idea how strict the rule regarding English only is enforced in Global. I tend to avoid it.
That said, English only is a good idea in principle, but a bad idea if that is interpreted as no words from any other language. How does one determine if it is an English word? The only way I can see is to pop the word into a translating tool and see what an unbiased translator comes back with. Or you look it up in a dictionary and see whether it is mentioned in a current English dictionary. If the rule is to be strictly enforced it should not be random or personal preference. Do we want a community where individuals are banned because it goes against personal preference?
That said, the correct decision would be that "conversations" in languages other than English could result in a ban (thanks ShuttlePilot for your brilliance). "Conversations" being understood as more than three words (or whatever might be enough to cover common idioms). Otherwise, if someone should say "no problemo," "chardonnay," or "doppelganger" are fine.

"Hasta la vista, baby"
FG
(My closing is a widely known and much repeated quote from American movie Terminator 2. Fyi, i don't agree with the kids translation in the movie.)

Not talking about different languages per se, I am saying that regardless of your Country and its Official language, foreign words and short phrases creep into daily use
So since we are an English sever the, converstions should be in English, however a word or phrase that is commonly used in America, such as ciao (Italian Hello) Adios (Spanish good bye) or manana (meaning later) should be allowed. Not as a means to bypass the filter, or to mock anyone, rather as a means to express one's self more fully.

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Originally Posted by Freckledguy

...How does one determine if it is an English word? The only way I can see is to pop the word into a translating tool and see what an unbiased translator comes back with. Or you look it up in a dictionary and see whether it is mentioned in a current English dictionary...

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Not counting Latin, I speak three languages and am somewhat familiar with others. English borrows heavily from Latin and French in particular, other tongues, too. Aside from being unwieldy and prone to varying results, running words and phrases through automated translators or dictionaries would be a sure chat-killer for its time requirement alone. Further, at what point does a widely-used term become English when its origin is clearly French? When one dictionary accepts it but another doesn't yet?

All we want is the ability to use non-English words and phrases that already enjoy widespread use in common English conversation without the risk of a no-warning chat-ban for saying "good night" in Italian. (Yes, it's happened.) We're not asking to converse in tongues other than English, just to use common non-English words and phrases that the majority of native English-speakers already understand and use in daily English speech.

We believe the English-only rule was originally implemented to constrain the conversation to English. We support this interpretation. But we believe the current no-non-English-words-ever interpretation is overreaching and serves to strangle chat when participants must carefully consider each word lest a lurking moderator take offense at a passing "adios."

That we are even having this discussion is absurd.

This conversation is making me tired. In Canadian, I'm fatigued.

Reasonable use of a common-use word or phrase where the majority of English-speaking players understand both the words and the cultural reference should be acceptable use. Even the occasional one we don't all get should be allowed unless bypassing obscenity filters - which the mods can quickly check google translate since they are "working" the chat rooms, it's not too hard.

Anyway, "Hasta la vista, baby" is a perfect example. This phrase has it's own wikipedia page noting multiple references in American culture (Bob Hope - music - the Terminator series). Neither of my kids (16 and 18) was around when these movies first came out, but they know the phrase...

OK confused here, is UK English allowed ?

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Originally Posted by Dorotheus

OK confused here, is UK English allowed ?

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Stressing that I am not trying to speak for BB, one would assume U.K. English is the standard, the baseline. The issue we're discussing here is that the U.S. server should allow popular U.S. terms like adios, hasta la vista, buongiorno, bon jour, cerveza, et. al. -- terms that are not English words but which are very commonly understood and used in U.S. speech. There are hundreds of them. Currently, using such terms can result in no-warning chat bans.

We are asking that the English-only rule be interpreted to require chat conversation be conducted in English (which we support) instead of the current interpretation that prohibits all non-English words (which is heavy-handed and impractical).

Sorry, Barney, not trying to commandeer your virtue train. :-)

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Originally Posted by Trafik

Stressing that I am not trying to speak for BB, one would assume U.K. English is the standard, the baseline. The issue we're discussing here is that the U.S. server should allow popular U.S. terms like adios, hasta la vista, buongiorno, bon jour, cerveza, et. al. -- terms that are not English words but which are very commonly understood and used in U.S. speech. There are hundreds of them. Currently, using such terms can result in no-warning chat bans.

We are asking that the English-only rule be interpreted to require chat conversation be conducted in English (which we support) instead of the current interpretation that prohibits all non-English words (which is heavy-handed and impractical).

Sorry, Barney, not trying to commandeer your virtue train. :-)

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I would have thought American English would be the baseline on the US servers, as Queen's English has different words for some things, and if we was to throw in certain regional words the situation gets worse. Indeed I've known the EU mods to throw a wobbly at the use of some of those.

The problem here is what is corporate policy. The company tells the mods what is allowed and the mods enforce that. Their guideline appears to be what is the official language for that servers region period with no other considerations which may exist which say they can't do that.

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Originally Posted by Dorotheus

I would have thought American English would be the baseline on the US servers, as Queen's English has different words for some things, and if we was to throw in certain regional words the situation gets worse. Indeed I've known the EU mods to throw a wobbly at the use of some of those.

The problem here is what is corporate policy. The company tells the mods what is allowed and the mods enforce that. Their guideline appears to be what is the official language for that servers region period with no other considerations which may exist which say they can't do that.

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Sorry, I really need to learn to speak more clearly.

Since the nature of U.S. English is a hodgepodge of Latin, U.K. English, French, Spanish and many others (not that U.K. English is not, itself, a pastiche), my assumption is that the baseline of English is choate U.K. English with an allowance for geographic idioms. Because our gracious hosts are native Deutsch-speakers, my next assumption is that our hosts allow their appointed moderators, who presumably (yep, another assumption) are native speakers of whatever language on which servers they operate, broad latitude to interpret local idioms and vernacular. In this case, the moderators are prohibiting all words they perceive to be non-English, an impossible task given the turbid murk of U.S. English. Since the punishment for such infractions is typically a no-warning chat ban, we are trying to get our hosts and moderators to relax their interpretation of the English-only rule to mean that conversation be conducted only in English, not that all non-English U.S. idioms are completely banned.

Simply put, I believe our BB hosts allow their volunteer moderators broad latitude to interpret company language rules. I wish this one rule would be more focused on keeping chat in English and less focused on the legalistic minutiae of ensuring players never use any non-English word, ever, even if the term in question is a popular U.S. idiom.

Good grief.

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Originally Posted by Trafik

I am curious: is there a Canadian server where both English and French are accepted?

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Both English and French aren't really even accepted in most parts of Canada I don't know why they would be accepted on a server. Also with two NA servers there isn't likely a 'canadian' server.

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Simply put, I believe our BB hosts allow their volunteer moderators broad latitude to interpret company language rules. I wish this one rule would be more focused on keeping chat in English and less focused on the legalistic minutiae of ensuring players never use any non-English word, ever, even if the term in question is a popular U.S. idiom.

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I have never seen a problem on the Ares server so I am assuming there is a tiny group of people on the Zeus server wanting to use non-English words.

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Originally Posted by Narasn

...a tiny group of people on the Zeus server wanting to use non-English words.

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LOL. Yes, we wanted to be able to say bizarre things like "hasta la vista," "ciao," "see you mañana" or even "confit de canard" without earning bans or chiding from moderators. It's amazing what happens when one expands one's vocabulary beyond the monosyllabic.

Fortunately, we held an affable chat between the tiny group, a BB representative and three moderators yesterday morning. I believe we might have reached a consensus.

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Originally Posted by Trafik

LOL. Yes, we wanted to be able to say bizarre things like "hasta la vista," "ciao," "see you mañana" or even "confit de canard" without earning bans or chiding from moderators. It's amazing what happens when one expands one's vocabulary beyond the monosyllabic.

Fortunately, we held an affable chat between the tiny group, a BB representative and three moderators yesterday morning. I believe we might have reached a consensus.

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English words only have one syllable? How odd that I never noticed that. Anyway glad you got your language issue sorted out.

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Originally Posted by Narasn

English words only have one syllable? How odd that I never noticed that...

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My remark was less a dull syllable-counter than an indictment of speech strangled by a hyperfocus on literal interpretation of a simple concept. You might practice your math skills.

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Originally Posted by Trafik

My remark was less a dull syllable-counter than an indictment of speech strangled by a hyperfocus on literal interpretation of a simple concept. You might practice your math skills.

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I can see why you want to speak in another language.

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Originally Posted by Narasn

I can see why you want to speak in another language.

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I'm sure you can. Fortunately, any provincial fear of plurilingualism I may have had was long ago erased by my ability to speak several of them.

That a reasonable request to use idioms in chat without risk of censure has devolved to this level dismays me. I'm done wasting time on pointless one-upmanship. Have at it. :-)

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Originally Posted by Trafik

I'm sure you can. Fortunately, any provincial fear of plurilingualism I may have had was long ago erased by my ability to speak several of them.

That a reasonable request to use idioms in chat without risk of censure has devolved to this level dismays me. I'm done wasting time on pointless one-upmanship. Have at it. :-)

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That wasn't what I meant but ok.

Just want to thank the Mods and the GM for listening and for clearing this up through some good dialogue in Global. Ruffled feathers appear to be smoothed, common sense in applying the rule prevails, and no pitchforks and torches were seen. : )