Ranged vs Melee

[klyxmaster]

I have been searching through these forums and have not seen an answer for this. just specs - when does not have a "ranged" value for bomen

How does the combat work? and what I mean by this, if i have (example only) 100 bowmen vs say 50 bandits = does the bowmen get to wipe the bandits out first since the volley will hit well before the bandits are in melee range? there should be several rounds minimum for the bandits to cover ground (under the volley) before they start smacking the bowmen.

for instance - a very informative post
http://forum.castleempireonline.com/...em-information
but, unless i missed read, only covers multiple type troops (melee and ranged, and that melee will get hit first then ranged). what if you sent only ranged (which I will be testing unless someone has an answer prior - takes a bit to train a decent amount of bowmen). Theoretically, in the above example, you should be able to wipe out most if not all of the bandits, unscathed (if not, just tweak the number of BM higher to find that "sweet" spot for a zero loss) before they even get to you. (excluding "Courageous" trait as displayed by bosses)

does that make sense

cheers!

[Tapewormz]

Cavalary > Ranged
Ranged > Swords
Swords > Cavalry

Hope that helps. This seems to be the model in every strategy game I've ever played. Be it video games or board games.

*Edit* You also have to look at their bonus modifiers.

[klyxmaster]

Hi
thanks for the reply
however, I am aware of the unit capabilities. My question is - can (undetermined amount) bowmen single handedly w/o loss take out a bandit camp. Since bandit camps are melee units - is there a series of "rounds" like video/board (chainmail? Warhammer? ex) games that would give the ranged units an advantage of wiping them out before the melee reaches them.
If I send out 100 ranged, they should smoke melee units 100% (RNG not withstanding).

I will run a few test to see, then report back here. I believe with the right amount of ranged (and type) you should really only need one type of unit to wipe out a came, zero looses and full loot.

I think that sending "pawns" out to get smoked, regardless of their skills, valuable resources were used to make them and it is just a waste to send them out to take 100% hit, so the ranged units can pick off the left overs. While interesting strategy IRL, game wise I think that is a bad decision and a waste of materials. I was just curious if anyone explored that avenue.

Thanks again

[Aurorah]

Only units that attack first are Cavalry, Dogs, and Wild Mary.
Melee and Ranged attack each other at same time.
Most Bosses and Cannoneers attack last.

Cavalry and Dogs will also attack units with lowest HP first.
Otherwise there is a set order of what you will lose first.

[Cenzton]

I have been searching through these forums and have not seen an answer for this. just specs - when does not have a "ranged" value for bomen

How does the combat work? and what I mean by this, if i have (example only) 100 bowmen vs say 50 bandits = does the bowmen get to wipe the bandits out first since the volley will hit well before the bandits are in melee range? there should be several rounds minimum for the bandits to cover ground (under the volley) before they start smacking the bowmen.

for instance - a very informative post
http://forum.castleempireonline.com/...em-information
but, unless i missed read, only covers multiple type troops (melee and ranged, and that melee will get hit first then ranged). what if you sent only ranged (which I will be testing unless someone has an answer prior - takes a bit to train a decent amount of bowmen). Theoretically, in the above example, you should be able to wipe out most if not all of the bandits, unscathed (if not, just tweak the number of BM higher to find that "sweet" spot for a zero loss) before they even get to you. (excluding "Courageous" trait as displayed by bosses)

does that make sense

cheers!

It sounds like what you're asking is if you can kill bandits without ever taking any losses, and the answer is only if you're attacking with cavalry.

In each round of combat both sides hit each other. Your units will always hit what's in the front row first, unless it's being bypassed by the cavalry's special (targets lowest hp unit first). So if you take only 100 bowmen vs. 50 scavangers, even though your bowmen will shoot down all the scavangers the scavangers will still get to his your bowmen causing fairly big losses. This is why taking recruits (and later on possibly militia) is so crucial, because since they're in your first line other units will always (once again, except for dogs) hit them first instead of your weaker bowmen.

So, basically, unless you manage to take go to a camp with only cavalry and kill whatever is there before they act (something like the 200 ranger Hard Camp), there is no way to wipe everything out without taking damage yourself.

[klyxmaster]

Only units that attack first are Cavalry, Dogs, and Wild Mary.
Melee and Ranged attack each other at same time.

OK.. so now.... (as mentioned above) exclude the Melee attackers - pretend they don't exist at the moment. Is it possible to created a group of ranged (calvary?) that cannot be hit since their volley will find the enemy before they (melee) are within rage to attack?

If melee and ranged attack at the same time, creating a ranged unit is a waste of resources.

Simply put: If i have a gun and you have baseball bat -
1. I am going to attack first, you can only move forward
2. I am going to pick you off before you reach me (even if I miss a few times) as I'll have a more chances to hit you before you reach me. If we both attack at the same time, it is pointless that I use a gun, I'll just switch to melee mode, thus making the gun a waste.

Again, I only ask this because there are high level players, and I only see multi-type troop tactics, and wondering if someone tried this (I know it is time consuming as ranged troops take forever to make a decent amount)

I am getting close, working on bowmen now - made it to level 16 in one day! (veteran gamer). Off today so hope I can get 17 to make hardwood. I am gonna try a 3:1 bowmen on a simple camp. I should be able to take out 7 bandits with 21 bowmen and not loose anyone (unless they are ranged too)

[klyxmaster]

[QUOTE=Cenzton;155667]
It sounds like what you're asking is if you can kill bandits without ever taking any losses, and the answer is only if you're attacking with cavalry.
[QUOTE]
Well ya :P
But ranged are a special type of troop in most games. If they use a "turn by turn" style combat. Ranged will always volley off before melee troops can touch them. The only major determining factor for survival are two-fold:
1. how far apart can the ranged start firing and doing damage
2. how fast the melee troops can gain ground

With #1. there is an additional factor as well. Can they hit hard (this of course would follow stat buffs such as accuracy for "crits", how much damage each can do - which also depends on weapon type and troop level - can get very detailed, and how often they can hit (bowmen 80% is decent, if anything pretty high for a low level - but does not say how far away they can start doing damage)

In each round of combat both sides hit each other.

Hmmm, so there is no distance factor with the ranged correct?

Your units will always hit what's in the front row first, unless it's being bypassed by the cavalry's special (targets lowest hp unit first).

Interesting, so the "Devs" excluded that fact that bowmen can shoot over the front row, AND from a distance, giving cavalry a "ranged" ability?

So if you take only 100 bowmen vs. 50 scavengers, even though your bowmen will shoot down all the scavengers the scavengers will still get to his your bowmen causing fairly big losses.

AHHHAHAHAH!!! OK, Thats what I was looking for. So even though they are dead, and were killed from a distance, they (melee troop) will still manage to run to your bowmen(ranged) and take them out, or at min, cause heavy losses

This is why taking recruits (and later on possibly militia) is so crucial, because since they're in your first line other units will always (once again, except for dogs) hit them first instead of your weaker bowmen.

(off topic - one sec) There is another game similar to that tactic, but it is not to absorb damage, but instead to offset the RNG

Weeellllll bummer!
I was thinking of a LITTLE realism - so if what you say is correct, ranged is pointless to make as they have no advantage in combat since they can still be taken out by the enemy that you kill

OK
Cheers!!! Thanks for all the info guys.. gonna have to analyze all this :P

[Cenzton]

Ranged is not pointless to make, as your ranged unit do significantly more damage than your meat shields. You want to take just enough cannon fodder for the enemy to not breach your front lines, and the rest you want to stuff with your damage dealers to make sure you never get to a 2nd round of combat. Grab Selak's battle sim, it'll help you figure out how much you'll need to minimize losses.

Oh, and here's another couple of things you should know. First, you're thinking about accuracy wrong, there's no actual miss chance. When a unit hits accurately it does max damage, when it's not, it deal minimum damage. And, secondly, each unit of yours will only hit one unit of theirs. This means if say, you take a recruit to a dog fight and have it deal 30 damage in an attack, it's not taking out 6 dogs, it's only taking out one. This is only circumvented by the Splash damage ability which bosses have, and probably will be used by cannons later on too.