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Thread: Few words on combat system

  1. #1
    Mayor EpsilonSilver's Avatar
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    Few words on combat system

    (from TSO forums)
    Feels like plenty of people are in the dark when it comes to army composition and overall strategy.
    To avoid further confusion here are a few lines on how combat system works.

    Combat phases:


    As you can see by watching combat replay from battle reports, all units with the same initiative are attacking in the same phase, for clarity the attacks of your units are displayed first (but its still the same phase).

    a) first phase (cavalry, dogs, wolves, shadowsneakers, most of the amazon type of units) - attack in the first phase, since they can damage units before those can strike back - their damage is usually decreased.

    b) second phase - normal initiative (most units)

    c) last strike - cannons, most of the viking type of units, most of the bosses

    Special abilities:


    a) first strike - causes units to be able to attack in the first phase

    b) attacks weakest target - obvious. In fights against any units with this ability it is highly advised to not use cavalry/ archers of any kind, as it usually comes with first strike and will eliminate all your weak units before they can fight back; there are however few tactical exceptions from this rule - you can sometimes add bowmen to your footmen/LB/crossbowmen army to draw enemy cavalry attacks, so that bowmen are killed instead of more valuable ranged units.; units: cavalry, shadowsneakers, guard dogs, like half of the amazon units, some bosses.

    c) splash damage - causes unit to deal the damage that exceeds the amount of hp of the target to be applied to the next target. IE a boss that deals up to 800 damage would normally deal 800 damage to a recruit, effectively killing it. With splash damage, he will kill up to 20 recruits instead (as excessive damage will be dealt to the second one, third etc..) ; units with this ability - boss creatures, some of the pirates

    d) tower bonus - as far as I can tell this applies to archer units that are in towers and therefore harder to kill, I don't know about any situations when it needs any specific approach (since those are usually cleared with cavalry, no probs).

    Additional mechanics (apart from splash damage):


    a) hit chance - this is confirmed by some sources that are unrelated to BB as the chance to deal maximum damage. If the hit is not successful, minimum damage is dealt instead.

    Eg. 200 roughnecks against 200 soldiers, you have 100% chance of winning the fight as roughnecks have only 60% hit chance (meaning they will only deal half their damage 40% of the time).

    Principles of army composition:


    a) Use recruits. These are the fastest produced units, using the least materials that are the easiest to get (as producing them requires only basic structures, cheapest mines and technically the least number of buildings).

    b) Attack twice whenever you can. Its always better to weaken the camp and then finish it with cavalry/archers than to engage in a fight that you win with barely any units left.

    c) militia/soldiers do more damage than recruits, in a well calculated fight they can replace archers as extra damage dealers long as you dont lose them

    d) bosses are attacked first. This is quite important, since there is plenty of fights where even throwing 200 soldiers to die will leave you with no units killed. Normally a way to avoid that is sacrificing cavalry to clear some of the units hiding behind the boss (attacks weakest units first -> rings a bell ?) up to a point when you can engage boss with a combination of footmen and archers (or just footmen if boss attacks weakest units as well).

    Sample fight:


    Chuck, 100 Roughnecks, 50 Guard Dogs, 49 Rangers

    Army composition:

    a) dogs -> we cant use archers
    b) boss has 9k hp, we cant break it in the first round without archers
    c) we decide to clear dogs before we engage boss; while we're at it, we can throw some extra cavalry to kill rangers; considering hit chance is not 100%, we will need about 120C
    d) ok, weakest units cleared, now onto the boss; he strikes last, meaning that a huge pack of archers will be able to damage and most likely kill him before he strikes for 2-2.5k splash damage (ouch).
    e) we can either throw in 180 longbow-men just to kill chuck and let them die from roughnecks, or see if we can add some footmen so that at least some of the LBs are protected.
    f) playing with the combat calculator leaves us with 50M, 150LB composition, where we kill the camp on the second wave, losing militia and some of the bowmen.

    Sample fight #2: Secluded Experiments, camp 9

    1 Crazy Cook, 100 officers, 50 gunmen, 50 caltrops.

    a) playing with the combat simulator, we get to know that caltrops can be attacked even before the boss. We decide to sacrifice some recruits to eliminate them, as theyre keeping us from using both cavalry and archers. Required amount or recruits is about 70-75, as some will die on first strike of the caltrops.
    b) we have a 5k hp boss that strikes first and a lot of strong units behind him. We can either sacrifice cavalry (will be a lot since officers have lots of HP), or setup a small block (to soak bosses damage on round 1) and some archers to kill the boss right after. LB are not mandatory since 190 regular archers will do.
    c) normally we would use cavalry against gunmen, BUT officers would attack it and eliminate in a single shot (splash damage!). We decide to use recruits instead (should soak officers' damage) with some soldiers or militia as damage dealers that are not "weakest units" in this fight. Combat simulator tells us 166R and 34S will be the right amount. BAM! Fight is over.
    Last edited by SirRoy; 02-24-12 at 07:28 am.

  2. #2
    Veteran General Jethro702's Avatar
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    Another Great Guide SirRoy Added
    Creator of the Old TSO Guide List, which is now in xMISTY's control..
    Joined Aug.8.2011

  3. #3
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    Thanks again best friend

  4. #4
    Recruit xExcaliber's Avatar
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    read and dont comprehend some of it, dont understand the sequence. the arrow points one way and the crossed swords are oposit.. if a troop type is all red then why are there no losses according to the numbers?

    A Gamer for life, A Razorback, A Grandpa 13 times, married 38 years. nuf said.
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    Soldier Dreamsfear's Avatar
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    Those troops are lost but its like the each side are suppose to attack at the exact same time. Just seems our combat system can't handle that so instead its a turn based strategy. I attack then you attack so on and so forth. Now lets say I attack you with 200 recruits and kill off your 100 recruits...is it logical that I take 0 losses in that battle? Ofcourse not, so the way it works is this...my recruits attack and kill off all 100 of your recruits, then your recruits still get their turn to attack! Meaning you're gonna kill something of mine. Think of it this way, 1 round is technically 2 turns if you watch the combat mail play out. Both sides of the combat each get one attack with out calculating losses right up front.

    Round 1

    ****My turn: My 200 recruits attack your recruits and do enough damage to kill off 100 recruits.

    ****Your turn: 100 recruits attack my 200 recruits doing enough damage to kill say 75 of my recruits

    End of round 1...losses calculated and troops fall over dead.

    Round 2

    so forth and so on.

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  6. #6
    Recruit xExcaliber's Avatar
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    thanks. that explains it well.
    A Gamer for life, A Razorback, A Grandpa 13 times, married 38 years. nuf said.
    Rednecks Guild a place for older gamers to have some fun

  7. #7
    Soldier Dreamsfear's Avatar
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    That's good, it's hard to explain really in text. Kinda worried I was just gonna confuse you even more.

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    Caam - I need some help with the leader camp. Chuck 9000 hit points; Guard dogs 50; Rangers 49; Roughnecks 100. I attacked the first time with 200 recruits....lost and took none of the camp out. Second attempt - sent 160 recruits, 13 militia, 12 soldiers and 15 long bowmen.....again lost and took none of the camp out! I'm confused how to attack again, please help me. Thanks, Caam

  9. #9
    Soldier Dreamsfear's Avatar
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    Pulled from http://forum.castleempireonline.com/...highlight=kill which is an excellent guide to follow for clearing your island btw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demacia View Post
    How to kill

    wave 1 : 110
    wave 2 : 85 / 40 / 75 . (This composition should not be changed unless u put in advanced units). chuck will die in this round
    wave 3 : 80 + watever u have left that can deal dmg = 200 units in total. They can take out 100 rough neck with no problems.

    only recommend using at wave 2 for metal tooth and wave 3 for chuck to avoid any loss for the expensive units.

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  10. #10
    Mayor EpsilonSilver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caam View Post
    Caam - I need some help with the leader camp. Chuck 9000 hit points; Guard dogs 50; Rangers 49; Roughnecks 100. I attacked the first time with 200 recruits....lost and took none of the camp out. Second attempt - sent 160 recruits, 13 militia, 12 soldiers and 15 long bowmen.....again lost and took none of the camp out! I'm confused how to attack again, please help me. Thanks, Caam
    Kill Chuck...
    Wave 1) 110cav...
    Wave 2) 85r/40m/75LB...
    Wave 3) 100r****

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