Re-balancing Heavy Arms

[ZBest]

The loot drops on adventures are really starting to skew the balance of the game. Longbows, iron swords, and steel swords (and soon d. swords, xbows, and cannons) are all becoming HEAVILY devalued. It's to the point where nobody is producing them, and it's very hard to find any buyers for the huge stashes out there.

These weapons aren't being used because the investment in training times is too long compared to the small-arms units.

Exploring obvious options:

Increase Demand
1. PvP
2. Reduce barracks training times or increase barracks capacity
3. Donate units to a guild army pool which can be sacrificed for DECENT rewards (fix guild quests)
4. Make adventures harder so they require bigger unit losses (players will choose the path of least resistance, so will likely be less effective)
5. Provision down to small-arms

Decrease Supply
1. Modify adventure loot to reduce heavy-arms drops
2. Modify adventure loot for more small-arms slots

I think we as players would rather increase demand than reduce supply. Provisioning down (longbows to shortbows - steel swords to bronze swords - iron swords to bronze swords) would be the quick-fix. We have scaffold rods / used longbows but we need provisions that go the other way.

I think that the BEST option is to modify the barracks capacity. If the barracks had 3 queues (Intermediate / Advanced / Expert), then you could be training recruits/bows concurrently with longbows/militia/soldiers/cavalry and xbows/elite soldiers/cannons.

Because you would potentially triple your barracks output if you were sacrificing advanced units -- milita / LONGBOWS / cavalry / elite soldiers start to become expendable and replacable. (Demand for steel and titanium shoots up drastically and expert buildings gain value).

Any other opinions out there?

[Chasmanic]

It's not the loot drops, Z. It's the aging population on the server.

[ZBest]

It's not the loot drops, Z. It's the aging population on the server.

Are you trying to tell me that the price for a stack of iron swords has dropped from 130gc to 50gc over the past 6 months because the 'aging population' of the server has experienced an iron-smelter and iron-weaponsmith building spree that caused the steady overabundance?

Methinks it has something to do with the fact that in 24 minutes I could have 8 recruits or 3 militia -- and everybody chooses recruits. And adventure after adventure after adventure, people are getting larger and larger piles of heavy weapons from the loot.

[Evil_J]

well i dont produce any iron or steel swords, because i get all i need from loots
i also find the expert buildings (except exo mills) useless, why would i bother to produce cannons, xbows or dama swords? only need 2500 of each to have enough troops of each, we get that and much more from loots, thats the unbalance

[Bystander]

Well that the server is aging and there are players that have played here 'longer' is a given. That longterm players are reponsible for the crash in value of Iorn swords can be inferred IN PART... its easier to make iorn swords for established players, hence more of them put them on the market , hence increased supply results in decreased demand.

I dont think thats unhealthy. It just means you have to realize the changing dynamic of the market and seek to supply something else , or find a way to ramp up your volume at less cost to make it more profitable to sell the existing product at the existing price.

Look at fish: used to be never more than 1-2 gc/400 now I sell what I dont supply to my guild @ 4gc/400 because they are so useful in making baskets , and the buff economy is alive and well. In fact if your selling your fish for 1-2 gc now your seriously undervaluing what you could be getting by turning them into buffs instead.

Same thing with meat and I only expect demand to increase (and thus price to increase) for both these products as time goes on.

Back to your rebalance suggestion. I think its a good idea to :

A) Institute PVP , but DO IT RIGHT - beta beta beta this to death before you launch it
B) Address Barrack build times by allowing 1 barrack per 5 provinces you control - then you get 2 with your starter island and an additional one per each 5 sectors controlled on the PVP continent
C) Guild Army pool : Yes. Can be overseen as an allied cardre , generals donated controlled by guild leaders and 2 vGM (max 2 of those appointed vGM)
D) Dont need to make existing advents harder. Just more rare and make NEW adventures that ARE harder. This is overdue and necessary to relieve boredom and freshen your product. A team of 2 should work this full time till you have over 200 advents.
E) Provision down to small arms? No. You can accomplish the benefits this measure may grant through other more positive means. Use imagination , dont stiffle options.

Decrease supply:

Id say no, but you could incease the amount of arms required to produce a unit. Again I wouldnt do this though.

Additional barracks ques : sure but see how it affects longterm balance first.

[Bloxz]

Just about everything is deflating. Higher lvl troops are rarely sacrificed in adventures. The only reasonable way to increase value in them is to make an adventure that requires high lvl troops to be killed off. Even then, people will complain if the reward from the adventure is not good enough to offset the costs which will then make the adventure obsolete.

I'm lvl 36 so far and all the single player adventures I have done so far has not required me to lose a single soldier or milita and yet I'm still getting plenty of iron and steel swords from loot. Supply over demand, the value of iron and steel swords will constantly go down since you only need a small amount of them to last you a life time.

[OranOran]

couldn't agree with this post more. something needs to be done about weapon devaluation. even bronze swords bows and horses have fallen in value to the point where they're barely worth producing either and these are used to replace killed units constantly.

[Achilles]

I agree totally ! The devs didnt think things through good enough, as they have made every expert building an obsolete joke, and quite a few advanced buildings as well. Crossbows, for example, have dropped dramaticly...and, why build crossbows when they are selling for 1gc/, but cost like 8gc/ to make? Cannons are another joke...I get more from wheels and carriages then cannons...and you need wheels and carriages to even make a cannon! The reason is simple...the loot drops KO'd the need for these buildings period. They need to remove a bunch of them from loot drops, IMHO.

[Braddicus]

I'm lucky to be a "late bloomer" and just now making the levels for the advanced buildings. Several weeks ago, I would've spent the resources to build 'em. Now, luckily, I've seen what ya'll are talking about. Get 'em on loot drops, buy 'em for coppers on the gold coin discount. Yep. Surprised if another "carpenter" or "cannon maker" (whatever they're called) is ever built.

[Ninjet]

LISTEN UP here is the production values of swords bows and horses. Bronze swords: 22 per stack, horses: 23 per stack iron swords 176.54 per stack bows 37.2 per stack long bows 88 perstack steel swords 367.64 per stack.
the market used to reflect these and you could even profit on them all but now there is no need to make anything. this is caused not by the players who have played long time but by the new genration of players who have 60 coinages and will buy gross amounts of resources for less and less coin every day. Feb 2012 i could sell horses at 40gc per stack.....i had 15 stables and that was how i made coin. Sept 2012 they sell for 10gc. i no longer have any weapon makers but bronzesmiths and 2 stables. BIG COIN MAKING GEM USEING ISLANDS HAVE RUINED THE MARKET WHY DOESNT ANYONE SEE THAT LOL.


all values are compaired to the production time, cost, resource used in manufactoring, and building space used in making coin. all math was done by me. economy major in college i have no life.