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Thread: "Gem Standard"

  1. #1
    Settler royalpayne's Avatar
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    "Gem Standard"

    Some may have noticed the value of resources dropping and the settlers world sort of falling into an economic depression. Things not being valuable as they once were and a steady downward trend has been happening for most items in general. We as the players could fix this simply by adapting into a new economics system where the value of things are based on the gem.... a "gem standard" as some would call it. In this post i will be discussing the idea of a gem standard and how it is to be implemented and the math to support it.

    Let us first look at the cost of coins in the trader: 350 gems for 100 gold coins..... if this is what we are to base the values from then 1 coin would equal 3.5 gems which i agree is terrible for those folks who sell gems and spend their real money on this game, but before totally shooting it down we should take a look at what the implications would be as far as resources are concerned....

    To start lets look at something that we all see as being fairly cheap.... pine logs.... in the trader 100 pine log is 28 gems..... now at the rate of 3.5gems = 1gc...... 28 (gems) /(divided by) 3.5(the rate of coin to gem)= 8 gold coins (the amount 100 pine log would cost)
    Applied same math formula for the other resources and you you can see that implying a standard would raise the value on almost every item, accept for gem items and granite......

    The downside to implying a standard is that the gem and granite will lose value. In today's market you could see as high 4gc per 1 gem and as much as 1.5gc for 1 granite. Under the standards system the gem will depreciate in value to 3.5 gems for 1 gold coin and granite would depreciate in value to roughly 2 granite per 1gc.... while this is all well and good for the people buying the gems and granite... what about the seller? Do we leave him or her screwed? i think not....

    Going back to the old "supply and demand" concept you'll realize that once most are drained of their gems from selling for cheap demand will outweigh supply..... bringing most to either offer more for the gem item or others to begin charging more for the gem.... But the standards system will also keep this in check, making it so that gem prices are not ever unreasonably high. It will do this simply by bringing up the cost of resources while gem sellers are selling their gems at a higher rate than 3.5gems=1gc, as the cost of the gems goes up so does the resources only because we would be using a standards system to retain value on the coin and resources by backing them in a gem value.

    In the end if this is at all to be taken seriously or implemented i also see Ubi needing to do their part in this as well.... If they lowered the gem values in trader..... say for example 1 gem =1gc then the trading market would be at a bit of a more level playing field, using my equations im sure you could see how much of an easier task this would be to accomplish if things were not so expensive as they are in gem trader. You can also see how the only time prices would fluctuate would be during times of high demand for gems or if there were a gem sale.....

    I honestly believe that setting a price standard would make the game market more stable over all as well as bring the depleted value back to the common resource. We can continue to watch the value of items go from fair to stupidly low all the time or we could have resources who's worth is hard to deplete as well as have a stable economic system with the coin.

  2. #2
    Noble
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    trade in this game is a free market system, no government interference, no rules and regulations, driven strictly by supply and demand. attempting to force the pricing of items to what you think they ought to be isnt going to work. the reason the price of some items is plumetting is simply because there is either no demand by a majority of players for tht resource, or the resource is cheap and easy to make and sellers therefore have started bidding each other down in the trade office. you want the price of items tht have been devalued to go back up? the devs need to give players something new to use those resources for, or, in the case of heavy weapons, make them not so readily available from adventures.

  3. #3
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    gems at 1:1 with gc would not solve the problem of supply and demand. Short of forcing trades at specific ratios or not allowing trades, nothing u can do. Resources would stay as they are.

    Is it a bad thing most resources are cheaper? Well it rewards people who sell gems more. Except for gems though, everything else cheaper means most people are not losing purchasing power parity.

  4. #4
    Settler royalpayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draconus2004 View Post
    gems at 1:1 with gc would not solve the problem of supply and demand. Short of forcing trades at specific ratios or not allowing trades, nothing u can do. Resources would stay as they are.

    Is it a bad thing most resources are cheaper? Well it rewards people who sell gems more. Except for gems though, everything else cheaper means most people are not losing purchasing power parity.

    Think of it this way draco, it turns into a circle with the gem standard. Starts with the lower levels, the lower level who has a ridiculous time getting progress to happen now has those same resources they were using before to get coin but they are worth far more, IE they can make coin faster as well as upgrade faster as they now have something that is worth far more at a stage when they need it the most, so plenty of coin to buy gem items which with this system would go down in price making it even easier and more affordable to put silos/ watermills etc..... then you look at the other half of the circle, the gem seller, he may have to sell his gems at a lower price but he also can get more granite as it will be cheaper as well, and by the time your selling gems is usually about the same time ya start needing granite, so in the end everyone would win as they get everything they need at a low price, and can sell their extra resources at a much higher price
    basically only way to change the market values at that point is to have a gem sale going on or have an adjustment in the price of gems, thus creating stable market and holding retain-able value to the coin not allowing recessions and such

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by royalpayne View Post
    basically only way to change the market values at that point is to have a gem sale going on or have an adjustment in the price of gems, thus creating stable market and holding retain-able value to the coin not allowing recessions and such
    Then all you will do is make an inflationary bubble of gems and other resources. Since eventually you will no longer have the ability to sell the basic resources once the population establishes enough. 1 gem could equal 10k stone for instance.

  6. #6
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    The problem is that there are very few "new" players to Zeus now that Ares is open, and so as more and more people level up and develop their islands, their need for your goods diminishes drastically two-fold. One way because they are producing that resource on their own and the other way in that they are now competing with you for selling those resources. In both situations you have a bidding war where prices drop drastically as each new "competitor" tries to undercut the next one.

    This is really prevalent with bread. it used to be you could get 265. then i started seeing a dozen more people selling bread and it dropped to 250. then i saw even more and it's now dropped to around 225 as of this morning. It's lost 40gc/10K value simply because there's more people selling bread thinking "this is a hot commodity everyone needs". The same is true of brew and bronze swords. while it's true they are "in-demand" items, everyone is making them now so you're not going to get the "old prices" on them. If you want the "old prices", go check out Ares which is newer and still taking in the majority of newer players so it's got a constantly fresh supply of new users. This means that prices are likely much more valuable there.

  7. #7
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    I would like to add to this. It is simply supply and demand per say. It comes down to more greed than anything else. I do agree that we do have alot of higher lvls now than a year ago, but with that said it has been a down sending trend. I have been watching the trade tab very closely for the last couple of weeks and have seen what is truely influencing the market. Here is an example Joe blow sees Jim blow selling bread let say for 250/10000. well I need GC I will post 10K at 245GC, Fred blow sees that and post at the same. Joe blow can not sell at 250/10000. Now he looks at what bread is selling for, well jim blow is elling for 245/10000. I need to make GC I well try to sell for 240/10000, and so on. I do not agree with a market standard, as it would not be beneficial to the game. I produce a lot of resources at LVL 50 so understandably don't need to buy much. I do sell a lot of resources. There is a sufficient amount of new players coming into ZUES but it is the older players that are setting the example for the newer player within the market place.

    I will say this I do not buy at the lowest price because it hurt the economy. I buy at the average price when I do buy because this will benefit myself in the end. So keep this in mind when your buying and selling if you undercut the pricing to sell your resources it will hurt everyone in the end.

    This tread was started based on gems. Gem items are great to buy and sell with the introduction of gem pits it has increased the amount of gems available. I have seen the market for gem items increase in price instead of decrease. When I started this game almost a year ago there where no gem pits you have to pay real money for them there were very little gem sales as there is now. Near a year ago you could buy a golden parrot for 95 GC now they average 335 per. Unless you are running a lvl 5 gold chain they are not worth it. Nobles would sell for anywhere fro 120-175 GC per noble now they run an average of 390 per. So where is the logic in that other than supply and demand.

    I do agree with Dreadmime about the bread thing. The market will continue to drop out as more and more players LVL up and increase there production. Bread, brew, bronze swords will always be the thing everyone needs and it the thing everyone produces to help them lvl up and not to have to buy ay which adds to the market drop.

  8. #8
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    Adding standards will create a decrease in the overall value of things. I've been logging my sales since I started playing the game, and as an example the price for 1k Coal has fluctuated between 9 GC and 13 GC, starting at 13, dropping as low as 9 GC and then raising itself back up. The market value, when talking about nickles and dimes, the market will fluctuate with current need and current market value. If I am trying to sell 4 lots of 1k Coal, and there is 0 available, and the value for 4k is 40 GC, then I'm going to sell my lots for 9 GC. This way, I can sell 4k Coal for 36 GC, a 4 coin difference for the same amount. If 4k is selling for 48 gc, then I can sell for 11 GC each. The market for Coal isn't fluctuating all that much. It's just based on the time of the auction going up. During peak hours, things are going to cost more, because more players are on and trying to undercut, but during the later hours when less players are on, the cost of materials goes up, as the market is more cornered by the smaller amount of players trying to post auctions. It's less supply and demand (as everything in this game can be obtained by simply waiting) and more of the "I want it now" aspect that some players have. I leveled quickly because I was willing to spend top dollar for my materials to rush through my early levels. Now that I'm high enough to mass produce what I want, I'm very much less willing to spend gold on materials. I've found its easier to make more gold faster the less I'm trying to sell. I'm less likely to sell 10k of something to higher level players who can produce their own (other than end game items) than I am to sell 1k of that same item 10 times to lower level players. What I'm more worried about is the appropriate amount to sell currently.

  9. #9
    Soldier Theopompos's Avatar
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    Economics 101 - supply and demand - more players have bought buildings that supply there needs without trading on Trade. More players have surplus now do to this as well - thus values drop when more players have supplies for sale - when I started this game 6 months ago when I wanted to buy something it was about 25% higher than it is today. But I do not need as much either because I too have bought production buildings and now have extra to use and sell. A open market system is the best for the buyer but not for the seller. Regulating what something is sold for is NOT a good game module.
    Any day above ground and vertical is a good day.

  10. #10
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