Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 23

Thread: Why advanced weapons failed - an empirical analysis

  1. #1
    Veteran General
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    630
    World
    Zeus

    Why advanced weapons failed - an empirical analysis

    Here is data on why Advanced weapon production failed in the past, is currently failing, and will continue to fail unless production ratios and times are severely adjusted. The base unit used here is "Time", measured in Seconds. This time measures the time to make a weapon across all the buildings involved (pinewood cutter, forester, coker, copper mine, copper smelter, and bronze weapon smith: those make a recruit).

    You may ask, why does this matter, this time? It matters because we have a finite amount of space and building licenses.

    I did this for All 4 melee units, along with bows and longbows - the classic units we plan to lose.

    The stat that matters most I feel is effective Hp, measured against the time to produce the weapons used for that unit. This stat is Total time divided by HP (Damage was used for ranged units). BB did a good job in balancing the recruit, and while the rest were brought down - they are not even close to recruit.

    As seen below, it is 4.55 times more efficient to use recruits current than militia, 7.45 times more efficient to use than soldiers, and 13.8 times more efficient to use than elites. Longbows also ranked badly, with bows being 3.24 times more efficient than them currently.



    The baseline goal I feel should be to get losses in line with the Old recruit in terms of time per HP (elite should be somewhat cheaper, given titan ore has 0 time to produce, and as ore is ~ 6-10% of the cost, it should be about 5-10% cheaper in terms of time to produce

    The first area I believe that should be analyzed is cutting the Iron ore needed to make a bar from 4 to 2. Maybe even 1. Upping coker output from 2 logs to 2 coal would also help. Coal time overall is in need of a massive reduction across the higher chains and composes most of the time.

    Here is how long it takes to make one unit of coal: 630 seconds. 90 Seconds to chop 1 log. 2 are needed. 135 Seconds to refill log deposit, 2 are needed. 180 Seconds to turn the logs into coal.

    Times on Weaponsmiths also I believe need a good bit of work. Damascene should come down to 32 minutes. Steel is good at 24 I think, though 18 should be considered. Smelter time is good across the board. Same for mine times.

    So my overall recomendations?

    Coker: 2 logs makes 2 coal
    Recruit: 5 Swords needed
    Iron smelter: 1 or 2 iron ore input
    Iron/steel/titanium/damascene: all buildings should consider a 25-50% reduction in coal

    Failure to do this, and the weapons will still be way to ornery to make.
    More of the same "new" content with a different bow? I will give more of the "same" towards my gem accumulation.

  2. #2
    Veteran General
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    676
    World
    Zeus
    I support their idea of the Damascene using only titanium and coal instead of steel. This would fit into this idea well as it will moderately reduce the amount iron consumed in exchange for the more readily produced coal. Now in practice, I'm not sure of the overall effect on island space.

  3. #3
    Veteran General
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    630
    World
    Zeus
    Cost is still too high in terms of actual production.
    More of the same "new" content with a different bow? I will give more of the "same" towards my gem accumulation.

  4. #4
    Mayor Perwyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    The Shire
    Posts
    1,559
    World
    Zeus
    Also time related and with a significant impact.

    It takes 5 minutes for a geologist to find a copper deposit, 2-1/2 minutes for a jolly geo.

    It takes 1 hour to find an iron deposit, 1/2 hour with a jolly. That's 12 times longer!

    There are 6 copper deposits on island. There are 16 iron deposits on island. All mines for each mineral have to be built to properly support the smelters & swordsmiths.

    Most people can find, build & upgrade all their copper mines while drinking their morning coffee, in less time than it takes to even find 1 iron deposit.

    This is the taproot of BB's "unbalanced problem" with everything you've analyzed being the fruit. Search times need to be drastically reduced, perhaps the number of iron deposits cut in half from 16 to 8, with each deposit being much larger than current.

  5. #5
    Veteran General
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    630
    World
    Zeus
    Scaling up to 16 fast geos is not that bad, imo, though the build time of mines is a much bigger issue.
    More of the same "new" content with a different bow? I will give more of the "same" towards my gem accumulation.

  6. #6
    Mayor Perwyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    The Shire
    Posts
    1,559
    World
    Zeus
    Yeah, I do fine with 8 jolly geo's. People who play for free may have a problem. At 100 free gems a week I suppose they could squeak by eventually.

    But don't you find the search time being 12 times longer for iron a bit excessive?

    The iron mines themselves are 5 minutes each, copper mines are 2-1/2, so only twice the time. If the build time was in the same ratio as the search time, iron mines would take 1/2 hour each!

  7. #7
    Veteran General
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    630
    World
    Zeus
    I wont argue, I did not factor that in tbh.
    More of the same "new" content with a different bow? I will give more of the "same" towards my gem accumulation.

  8. #8
    Veteran General Asiastrings's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Prestaging [Welt 1]
    Posts
    583
    World
    Ares
    Draconus2004, Suggestion, perhaps include this on testing server forum, I'm pretty sure the guys from all the other servers would really appreciate your efforts and give your efforts direct visual by BB_Devs from Germany as well. Just my suggestion based on past experience and what happens as a result is pretty darn good.
    Cheers;
    Asiastrings

  9. #9
    Veteran General
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    630
    World
    Zeus
    i posted it both places
    More of the same "new" content with a different bow? I will give more of the "same" towards my gem accumulation.

  10. #10
    Mayor Perwyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    The Shire
    Posts
    1,559
    World
    Zeus
    Quote Originally Posted by Draconus2004 View Post
    I wont argue, I did not factor that in tbh.
    The main point I'd like to contribute to the discussion is this:

    Even if BB were to make the production of soldiers match the time frame of recruits, doing so without addressing the iron deposit search times would be a mistake.

    The ease of copper mine maintenance is a huge incentive. The PITA that is iron mine maintenance is a large disincentive.

    Your analysis is superb. Thank you for taking the time to do it.

Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts