Why the 11/25 update is good, and why weapons should not be in loot

[LordB]

Plumz I don't see how pvp could be a scam to get gems.. they didn't even put anything to spend gems on in the shop. They didnt even create a real pvp shop anyways.

You also fail to understand basic mechanics of the game. The game supports the push into Iron just fine, and it is able to support much more iron with the loot changes than it was before. Sure if you are endlessly finding iron mines and just building them to lvl 2 you might have a shortage. For me I am producing more than I ever did and having to rebuild fewer mines everyday. Things will adapt people will start using x3 buffs on iron buildings supply will increase.
Additionally regular adventures can still be handled just fine by bronze if you are concerned.

Around sentiment I see just as many people active this week as last week (and that is with the bad lag) in fact I see a few more because old hands have come back to test out the new system. That is not to say that PVP has been executed well - it hasn't, but change with the times adapt go try and have fun.

The game design does support the push into Iron. Period.

[Pinkleet]

Don't know about others but my definition of fun is not searching for 16 iron depos, building, upgrading and buffing them everyday just to keep my economy balanced. Yes, lots of people are testing the new feature (pvp) and judging by number of posts on forums and sentiment in game it seems nobody likes the cost/reward ratio. But it is no surprise here, testers told BB in first week of pvp testing the rewards for doing it are just way too low. Well, deaf ears.

I can't speak for others. I didn't build the armory, didn't buy any marshals and not even planning on doing pvp unless the rewards are improved. Having great time on TO though watching my coins growing while posting trades straight from fantasy on coal and iron

[Chants]

Think I stopped paying attention at: lvl 48, lost thousands of elites, and that gold chains are not useful....

[Domesday]

I produce everything I need and I play with others and even trade.
Let's play the game, folks :-)

Brava, Moonlime.

[ThisNameIsTaken]

Re-balance the PvP element to a sensible level, including cobber ore for the attack units. Or alternatively do away with the PvP weapon smith and unit and keep everything unified, simple, known....

The PvP update was much needed, the other changes like "hey its my bonus week let me suck your coal dry as I produce extra bars", well, was not.

It takes foresight, and actually engaging with the community to make any of this happen.

The OP made a remarkable about Runescape in his post. Classical example, I played for 7 years, yes 7. They ignored their player base, they tinkered with the combat system to try and compete with games like WoW. In the end the lost out big time.

Developers, I'll give you a cold hard truth. If player numbers aren't decreasing, be satisfied. There are that many games out on the market, players choose your game from a reason. It's not because you were the best, nor the most popular. It's because they liked your GAME MECHANICS.

I CAN NOT SAY THIS ENOUGH TO GAME DEVELOPERS.

If you game is broken, don't fix it. If your game numbers/profits are decreasing, have a look at forums and look at small things players are asking for you to implement. Take player polls like you do for guild market. Want PvP? What will the costs be? Here are the options, you decide! Want a new loot system so fix the endless loot sharing monstrosity this game has become, here our our potential sink holes for resources, do you players agree? Cast your vote! Let's make a forum topic for feedback!


This is why companies like BlueByte and Jagex will fall into oblivion. Take a leaf out of Runescapes (pre-EOC) book, and go from there.


All the best.

[Xplicitt]

in any game if a quest didnt offer enough reward i skip it, i play rpg alot...just what fool would go off and risk his life or worse for a gold...I dont like the changes, I am new to game, I am glad you do. If any wish to converse with me send me a mail, I am in a different game.

[Kryptos901]

Well, since this got necro'ed back, I might as well add a few thoughts I was avoiding earlier. I think the first page of this post led to some interesting discussions, unlike the second page. To exemplify: Chants.

Think I stopped paying attention at: lvl 48, lost thousands of elites, and that gold chains are not useful....

Point one: correct. I am level 48. Point two: correct. I have lost over a thousand elites to bad blocks, quest related losses, etc. Point three: Exact opposite of what I said. Gold chains were the last *useful* production chains before this update. I've even written a guide on how extremely useful gold chains can be. Seems someone followed my TL;DR advice.

Anyway. I think ThisNameIsTaken made some interesting points I would like to address. First, If copper ore is added to PvP, then this will make the recruit loss heavy adventures, such as ALL OF THEM, much harder to run. Currently, I am consuming 14k and change copper ore per day for my industry. I would prefer to not have that increase, as it is a fairly brutal number for someone who does not buy gems.

I do agree with his following argument: Runescape, post EOC, is not something I play more than a few times a year. Frankly, it sucks now. It is not the same game that I started playing back in 2001. However, their number of people online on a daily basis is pretty much the same. This is why I think that BB's PvP update was helpful. Some people won't like it, some people will, and ultimately it will balance out. I have not yet attempted a single expedition on advice from my guild. However, I know people who have an expedition island where attacks constantly fail, and they have held it since literally the day this update came out. Likely, because of the high costs associated with PvP.

I cannot agree that companies like Jagex and BB will ever fall into oblivion, however. The first company was a trailblazer in the MMO genre, and will always be remembered as such in the history books. BB had the first city building game I have ever seen that did not feature forced PvP like evony, and I salute them for that; even though I think the parent company, Ubisoft, has screwed more of their games coming out of the gate than the average screwdriver. Look at the latest AC title if you need any proof.

Ultimately though, TNIT is correct. If your game is broken, but the player numbers are the same, don't bother fixing it. That's a waste of time and money for all but the most cutting-edge companies that wish to stay in the forefront. If you do wish to lead the pack, however, you should be not only fixing things that people complain about in the forums, but also coming up with new and exciting things for people to do. Even if some don't like the idea of suddenly having to spend resources to try out a new mechanic, like PvP, instead of just sitting back and collecting the monthly freebie, there will always be plenty more new people who love the idea and are willing to adapt. A successful company exists to help the latter, not the former.

In terms of fixing things that people are complaining about on the forums: PLEASE hurry up and release the multiple stacks at a time thing. The hardest part of running a bi-weekly SE is not the adventure, but the (5000+760+333)*3=732 (rounded up) consecutive repetitive mouse clicks it takes to train the troops for each one.

[Raubhautz]

[...] The hardest part of running a bi-weekly SE is not the adventure [...]

What? lol I run an average of one SE/day! :P

This is why I, personally, fully support Ubi and BB in the new 11/25 patch, and why I believe it is a good thing [...] This means that having advanced weapons, such as cannons and damascene swords drop as loot, was by definition, a broken mechanic [...]

I will agree with you on the point of removing weapons (especially advanced and epic ones) from most loot. HOWEVER, my biggest gripe about this update was not the weapons being dropped, it was the nerfing of loot in the 'Invasion of the Nords' adventure AND keeping the now worthless adventure at 1495 gems. Those of us who had purchased and had these adventures in our star menu came to find out the hard way the BB straight 'took that' as the kids would say these days. Not very honorable or honest imo.

Never did and never will do that Expedition stuff - ready to endorse Ali-Baba however...

I realize this is an older post, but still needed addressing!

[TLC1]

BB wants players to pay real money to play their game as any business does. It's how they stay a float. Even though this is a free game. Many players say the weapon removal is a good thing. Many like myself miss it.

I've mentioned this before about BB doing a slight compromise. Bringing some weapon drops back into the loot for those players that pay for the Premium Account.

I don't play PvP, so the iron supply pressure I have yet to feel. The new updates coming might change that along with my supply of weapons getting lower from what I had saved before the removal creeps down into single digits.

I thought more about it and thought of something that could possible help both sides of the players who want weapons back and those that would rather have better loot of something else instead.

I'm sure BB can set it up where the % drop of loot in each slot stays the same. And do we really need 3 or 4 lots that give the same resource? Can't you just combined them instead?

My suggestion is give us a lot where we can pick 1 item from a list:

A. A mid-to-high yield of a refill for the high end stuff coming out.
B. A drop of a weapon that are between 500-1000 units, you can change what weapons one can pick depending of the adventure to open the area for players to run them if they want a chance to grab them.
C. A building like a mine that can remove ore faster, or is already at level 6, a water fountain, residential house, or some other decoration.
D. A choice of a buff that works to improve the use of a resource on those high end production lines, maybe a buff we can only place ourselves or if another player can place it, even if they don't have PA we still get the buff bonus because we have PA.


This gets players to spend real money to have a chance at picking what they want. A win-win for all I think.
Players that want higher yield refills, or would rather have a weapon, or a building, or a buff.
BB gets players to part with their cash for the PA account. Any other game a PA account gives you that little added advantage over the free players, this could be one of the perks.

[Pinkleet]

It's not the weapon's in loot. It is the fact that a fresh 48 player who doesn't have tons of resources or coin neither top notch upgraded production chains will need to run BK adventure for a year (or longer) to get all the salt needed to make himself standing army of 400 Canons. On a basis of 1 BK a day run.

Can't argue with numbers. And the numbers look even worse once you get to lev 32. Game became very hard for lowbies after the loot "adjustment". Hard and slow. Now, all the 50ies are going to get even further away from all under lev 50 with new xpac coming up. The gap will be quite large and a lot of guilds will get some serious hits cause of that. There are social ramifications of creating large gaps between players and we will see soon how that will affect the game...