Salt an Titanium - simple math.

[Pinkleet]

I am not going to post how much resources is needed to make them. I am going the other way. How much I can make from loot drops. Judge the numbers by yourself.

I have about 1 in 4 chances of getting either 250 salt or 150 titanium ore from Black Knights adventure. The larger drops are on a much slimmer chance to get so I will not count it. Realistically from past experience I can expect in 10 BK runs to get 2-3 times salt/titanium drop. So what I can do with 250 salt or 150 titanium? Well lets see:

Titanium:

150 ore will go into smelter and give me 75 bars which will take about 4hrs to make. Buffed 2x - 150 bars.

150 bars goes into DS maker giving me 32.5 DS swords also within 4hrs. Buffed 2x - 65 DS swords

This is at level 5. At level 1 the numbers are the same except each process will take about 16-18 hrs

Assuming I am a lev 42+ player from this BK loot I can make 65 DS and it will take me realistically 2 days (2 step process). I can train 6.5 ES from 1 BK loot drop that will take between 4-8 adventures to get.



Salt:

250 salt goes into gunpowder hut giving me 41.5 gunpowder in 2hrs and few minutes. Buffed 2x - 83 gunpowder

85 (round it up) gunpowder goes into canon forge giving me 15 canons (round up) in about 80ish minutes. Buffed 2x -30 canons. (round up)

At level 1 both processes takes 4x longer.

So to sum it up.
Buffed 2x from regular BK drops I can expect to train about 6.5 ES or 3 canoneers.

Realistically you can expect to train 1 ES per 1 BK run and 1 Canoneer per 2 BK runs (round up).This is because your chance of getting salt/titanium is 25% per drop.

This is from average loot chance of 1-4 runs. You get a pretty good idea how long will it take for average player to train 200 ES (42+) and 200 K (48+). There is nothing in here about how expensive is to built the weapon chain or how much other resources are needed to make ES and canons (exo wood, coal). Further more, canon production also shares titanium which puts additional pressure on that resource.

As Ornias said in one of his posts - new players are doing very well looking for a new game to play. Can you blame them?

[EpsilonSilver]

I knew it was bad, just not that bad.

[Fyrione]

thanks for doing the math. i'm now seriously depressed.
when they said they were going to adjust things to offset nerfing the weapons loot, they obviously overlooked the little details!

[Pinkleet]

Not buffing up the salt/titanium loot while adjusting it for removing weapons was a huge mistake. This is a reason why salt and titanium cost more than granite now and why the number of available epic weapons WILL KEEP DWINDLING. There is not enough loot to make them toward the demand. There is no way in the game to restock on it either, except for adventure loot drops (not enough to feed demand) and treasure searches that are just laughable (10 salt from 48 hrs search???)

[Fyrione]

i totally agree. this needs to be seriously rethought

[Jani321]

It's quite easy to calculate average drop per BK. It's 47.5 (=0.13*250+0.3*500) titanium and salt per adventure. That equals 23 damaswords and 5 cannons with double buffs, so one can train 2 elites and 0.5 cannon per BK. Very low numbers I agree.

[Magenta_old]

Here is the tabulated information, taking into account double and triple buffs:

1 cannon = 6 gunpowder + 1 carriage
at 2x buff: 1 cannon = 3 gunpowder + 0.5 carriage
at 3x buff: 1 cannon = 2 gunpowder + 0.33 carriage

1 gunpowder = 6 saltpeter
at 2x buff: 1 gunpowder = 3 saltpeter
at 3x buff: 1 gunpowder = 2 saltpeter

1 carriage = 4 wheels + 6 explanks
at 2x buff: 1 carriage = 2 wheels + 3 explanks
at 3x buff: 1 carriage = 1.33 wheels + 2 explanks

1 wheel = 3 exlogs + 6 ironbar
at 2x buff: 1 wheel = 1.5 exlogs + 3 ironbar
at 3x buff: 1 wheel = 1 exlog + 2 ironbar

so, using multiple stages of buffs, the requirements for making cannons are:
2x buffs: 1 cannon = 9 saltpeter + 1 wheel + 1.5 explank = 9 saltpeter + 1.5 exlogs + 3 ironbar + 1.5 explanks
3x buffs: 1 cannon = 4 saltpeter + 0.44 wheels + 0.66 explanks = 4 saltpeter + 0.44 exlogs + 0.88 ironbar + 0.66 explanks

[Pinkleet]

Thank you Magenta for the quick sheet. According to this we can expect to make around 30 canons per 250 salt drop (BK) buffed 2x and 60 canons buffed 3x. (round up numbers).

From 1 salt drop BK adventure I can train either 3 or 6 canoneers depends on what type of buffs I am using). Granted salt has 25% average chance of dropping in BK that technically means I have to run 4 BK minimum to train 3 or 6 canoneers.

400 BK runs to get 300.(2x buffed). Technically. In my experience I don't get the salt 1 in 4 runs, usually i get 2 salt drops in 10-12 runs. So I can realistically expect to have to run BK adventure around 400-500 times to get a standing army of 300 canoneers (using 2x buff). or 200-300 times with 3x buff.

That is 1-1.5 years of game play doing one BK a day. Do you still think this is a reasonable time frame for new players to get their army so they can do epic adventures efficiently? I let the players judge that...

[Pinkleet]

And the argument saying players can buy weapons/resources through trade office is not going to work well. Your loot adjustment caused prices of canons and DS swords to go in thousands and salt and titanium are almost as expensive as granite already. New players with their economies just starting, without upgrades and stock piles of resources simply can't afford it.

There is another point to this. Scarcity of titanium and salt and dwindling stock piles of those will only agitate this even further. The devs created a choke point on those 2 resources and we are already starting to experience the results. It is only going to get worse not better because of small amount of those 2 dropping in loot and huge demand created by removing weapons from loot.

You going to have to take some action devs. Longer you wait, worse it gets. The players CAN'T fix this for you. Your action is required.

[Snacknado]

I will just say that expert weapon chains should only be ran if x4 buffed.......