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Thread: One Army, Less Clutter.

  1. #1
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    One Army, Less Clutter.

    In spite of what you are about to read, I am really happy about the new content. More quests, more adventures, more space on the home island, new buffs, new troops, new decorations, new production chains, saltpeter and granite mines!!!, a new population building {that I need to somehow gain 11 levels to see what it even is}, more uses for magic beans and the ever dormant fairytale castle, and I am sure plenty of things that I have not noticed yet. This is all great, and I thank Blue Byte for the plethora of new content, however I cannot get past the need to maintain a third, independent army.

    The new units sure are nice, but not being able to use them on the old adventures is a slap in the face. You reach level 75 only to be no stronger than you were at level 50? No thank you. I did not get an exact count, but that is about 50 adventures you cannot use them on and 10 you can. I am expected to set aside a portion of my population capacity for troops that I use to clear the new island sectors and then very rarely while completing Ali Baba adventures? This seems counterproductive as all that new land space will be devoted to new production chains and residences to support the new troops. Especially since by the time you get all these new production chains up and running you probably would have cleared the new camps on the home island. Yes, they are too overpowered for those older adventures, but they are that way because the new enemies are also overpowered.

    This guy, is insane. He has over three times the hit points of the strongest leader that I can think of.

    This guy, much more reasonable, perhaps underpowered.


    While we are on the subject of excessive. 100, 500 hitpoint units?

    Perhaps in smaller quantities there is a use for a 500 hit point enemy, but at this point you might as well just have thrown a leader unit in the camp instead. It is not unprecedented.

    Instead of creating crazily powerful units, you can achieve the same affect just by the troops that you put in the camps. A good example is this camp in Victor the Vicious.

    Our troops attack Metal Tooth before the Roughnecks, so you cannot just go throwing massive amounts of recruits at the camp the wear it down unless you want to spend all day with your Master of Martial Arts.

    If you balance the new enemies to be just out of range of our current troops, there would be no need for our new units to be so powerful and we can condense the three armies into one. Working out a good balance is going to take time, and I understand the desire to put out new content, especially with all the nagging and complaining you hear from all of us, but I can wait for better content over new content. In my opinion, most of these new units are redundant.

    If you would change our current canoneers to splash damage the besieger is pointless, goodbye. That also eliminates the need for the foundry and wagon maker. Though sad to put the effort into designing them, but they were not really necessary for such a small change to an existing unit.

    The swordsman and the mounted swordsman, are pretty much the same unit. One has more hit points and the other more damage. They more or less balance out. While they each have a specific use, it is a bit redundant. One of them can go away and not have much impact.

    I like the knight but in the case of being able to use him on the old adventures, he is way too powerful. Perhaps simply cutting his numbers to make him slightly more powerful than the cavalry would do fine. Here is a little thought out idea on that.


    The three marksmen, like the swordsmen are again redundant. The marksmen that is first strike, goodbye. You would be even more overpowered than the knight on the older adventures. Between the armored and the mounted, I would keep the mounted if only for the splash damage.

    I know Blue Byte put a lot of work into designing these new units, and killing four of them is asking an awful lot. Less units means less server space and less lines of code to find mistakes in, right? Saves you all money and time. Honestly you do not have to remove any of them, a better balance between old adventures and the Ali Baba adventures would easily solve this and we will be down to two distinct armies. But I will of course, ask for more. Please put the new units in our current barracks, rather than make us build and upgrade another one. The elite barracks is yet another large building you want us to place on the already awkward set up that is our available building spaces. I think it does look the nicest of the three barracks.

    To get it down to one army, the game knows whether you are on an adventure or an expedition. It will not let you send a tavern general to an expedition. I am not a programmer, but I assume you could code some of our adventure units to have different properties when sent to a colony? Keeping in line with Blue Bytes desire to be a resource sink for iron and horses how about something like this.


    Militia = Attack Infantry
    Soldiers = Heavy Infantry
    Bowmen = Attack Archers
    Longbowmen = Heavy Archers
    Cavalry = Attack Cavalry
    Knights = Heavy Cavalry
    Elite Soldiers = Guardsmen

    Perhaps you could code the game so the properties of these units is different depending on if you send them to an adventure island or expedition island. The tavern generals could act like marshals as well when sent. With this we get our armies down to one set of generals and one set of troops. Yes, some troops would be excluded from expeditions, but that is necessary for the current balance. I understand unit that function is two different ways will cause some confusion, but that is what the Archive and help chat tab is for. You could modify the pop ups on the units to two sections to help.


    All existing marshals would be either deleted from the game or converted to tavern generals. The Expedition Supplier should be removed and the Swift Marshal as well, though I suppose if people paid gems for that you should refund them. Also the combat academy and combat armory will have no use and can be removed too. I personally do not care if those resources are refunded for the upgrades to them, but I am sure a more casual player the impact of 5000 granite and 5000 coins has a much larger affect.

    As for the other part of the title, I would like to make a suggestion for a change of the way generals are used. Another complaint I keep seeing, and agree with is the amount of space generals use up on your home island and the tediousness of loading them up and sending them to adventures. I would like to offer a two part fix for this. An upgradeable dockyard and improving the tavern so that is has a use after you buy everything from it.

    Instead of loading up each general with troops I suggest a dockyard that we can build at level 26. Pardon the crude images. Level 1 could look like this…

    Upgrades can look fancier.


    And we can give it more of a purpose than just looking pretty. Hovering over the dockyard instead of the person up top would show your army.


    Instead of the general itself determining the travel time to and from adventures, the level of the dockyard would. 30 minutes at level 1 and each upgrade cuts off 5 minutes.

    After you clear your island there is no real need to have general sitting around on your island and when returning from adventures all generals would go to your tavern with the option just like the star menu to place them on your island. I would prefer to see the interface for the tavern be more like this.

    Instead of housing them in the star menu you could access your generals from the tavern, giving you a reason to keep this building after you buy all the specialists, and those evil other players opportunity to drop those negative buffs on your island. If you place a general on your island you could return him to the tavern with the transfer button like such.


    As for sending generals to and from adventures I would suggest an interface like such. When you click the “Send Army” icon on adventures you would get two pop ups. First the one like we have now asking you which generals you want to send. Then after that a second one would pop up that would function like loading our generals with troops.

    Or perhaps put both on the same pop up.

    This way we could always send troops to and from adventures without the frustration of having to worry about whether or not we have a general in the right place. Also this could eliminate the long boat ride home when you forget to load your troops up at the end of an adventure or someone clicks the complete adventure before the others participating are ready. This would make the Quartermasters useless, I would suggest removing them and definitely refunding the 40,000 beans. Perhaps make the level 6 upgrade of the dockyard cost that same 40,000 beans?

    With all that that, this is just one man’s opinion and I am sure there will be plenty to follow that disagree. I am sure there are far better ideas out there than mine, but ask that serious consideration is given to these concerns. Having to maintain three armies is annoying, nothing more. Again, like I said in the beginning I am very happy with the new content, so do not let this concern be disheartening. You all are doing a great job and I thoroughly enjoy this game, but it seems there is too much of a rush to get new content out.

  2. #2
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    With the new units, most of these bosses kinda translate to whacking Metal Tooth and the likes, nothing really special (troop cost aside as there isn't enough data on that just yet from 1 screenshot). Atm Snooty and Silly can be done with just about 80S losses, which is kinda reasonable tbh, the new units decimate them hard. Though I haven't simmed a fight yet againt the 1 million HP boss, but shouldn't be too bad with the new units, considering he barely does dmg and you can stack heavy hitters. Now, the Oasis Guarding with old units is another story hehe

    The 300/500 HP units are the biggest sting in my eye now, as of right now that is "if all remains as it is". As we have no unit that attacks weakest target, getting through them will cost some pain, though our units (or at least Mounted and Marksman got a description error) are likely still gonna get tweaked. Currently the Mounted Marksman is _the_ most incredible units ever, I'm taking it as replacement for my desired Cataphracts hehe

    Really like your proposition about the changed Tavern/Docks (as we've suggested times over and over again), that's a real need. Also the combining of the Adventure and Expedition units with 2 sets of abilities is great, haven't really looked at your numbers (or any numbers for that matter, since 1 Militia and 1 Attack Infantry cost different, let alone the iron swords vs (steel) pikes) thouugh.

    Not sure how your idea with troop adjustment would work out though (going for your example of making new units just a little out of reach so we can skip a third military). Your above example with Metal Tooth (and god do I hate him alright for tanking before Roughnecks), would kinda translate of being forced to wave an expensive set of troops to clear him out, which will cause alot of rage. Currently in alot of adventure (like in your example), I will throw my Major with 270B at him and call it a day there, as 1 waving just needlessly racks up the losses and cost. Of course it all depends on the camps composition again.

  3. #3
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    very nice post puppies nice work. I really like the idea about doing something about the generals on the island but great post and nice detail.

  4. #4
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    I understand my ideas are not perfect. The biggest thing I think we need is a balance between new and old troops so that they can be friends in one big general. If I recall PVP was introduced around the same time so I have a feeling this is going to be out just before Christmas as well. I just feel with such a big addition they should slow down a bit and make sure everything fits together nicely rather than having these new troops more or less stand alone.

    As for my thought with the current/PVP troops. Unbuffed. 1 militia is 10 iron swords and 1 attack infantry is 6 pikes, which is 6 steel. It is about even on the iron use. Soldier to heavy mercenary is 10 steel swords to 6 steel again, which is a more expensive. The bowman would be cheaper, longbowmen would use much more hardwood, but no iron. Cavalry would be just horses, and Knights horses and the new cloth. The only real slap in the face would be elites that go from valor points to damascene. We could keep guardsmen around and add them to the troop library as a use for valor points.

    Like I said, these are just thoughts. I am sure there are better ones out there. I really, really do not like having to maintain two armies and now they want to add a third? I will just continue on our current adventures to level up and keep one of my MOMAs at home to 1r the expansion islands for the next 12 months until they are mine.

  5. #5
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    On the test server, if you load the new units to a general and try to send them to an old adventure it greys out the general like such.


    Since the code is already there we can use this to prevent people from trying to load up and send recruits, crossbowmen, canoneers, and such to expeditions. With what I said before about tavern generals acting as marshals do now. When you reach that top PVP level where you get the ??? marshal that allows you to have 120 troops, you can use any gem/event general and they will act as he does.

  6. #6
    Community Manager BB_Endesmor's Avatar
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    Hello everyone,

    Very nice post, SweaterPuppies! It was interesting to read your ideas.
    I will forward this to our team.

    Best,
    BB_Endesmor

  7. #7
    Mayor Raubhautz's Avatar
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    Exclamation No need for three armies!

    Lots of work went into this post! Nice recon.

    I am not sure I agree with everything here, but in general your consideration was well thought out. I hope somebody takes it seriously enough to read the entire thing.

    For the most part, I think most of the new troops attributes are commensurate with the new enemies. My issue with the new troops is that none of our new ones have the skill: "Attack weakest target," as the Cavalry do in our old troops. I am addressing that issue on the testing forum.

    I whole-hardheartedly agree with having to maintain 3 armies (having to have two was the deciding factor for me NOT to pursue expeditions). An idea on these matters might be addressed as follows:
    • Most players do not have the population count to maintain two (2), much less three (3) armies; how about implementing a 'Mustering out' system? For each troop released from their current assignment (whether from Regular, Expedition or Expansion [when it is released]) the player should receive 100% of the population back into the general population pool; and 50-75% of the resources used to produce the mustering out troop(s) are returned to the Mayor's House/Star Menu.

    Just an idea.
    “Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends.”
    J. R. R. Tolkien

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raubhautz View Post
    I whole-hardheartedly agree with having to maintain 3 armies (having to have two was the deciding factor for me NOT to pursue expeditions).
    It would seem like BB thinks everyone has 100+ FMs and giga pop to handle three armies
    Boy am I glad, I did not tie up my tinsy winsy pop for PvP because this new army, unlike PvP, I sure will need.

  9. #9
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    Feel free to poke holes in my ideas rather than hold your tongue, they are by no means perfect. The balance of the new troops to the new enemies is fine, but unless you balance all the troops and all the enemies together there is always going to be a need for multiple armies and restrictions.
    One army. Pretty please.

  10. #10
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    Here is something I thought of as a concession if Blue Byte is hell bent on making us maintain three armies. How about we go half way on the generals/marshals as a start, and see where that leads.

    In the current form our generals menu looks like such.

    The area that use to tell us the status of the general is quite blank.

    On the test server we have this swap units button now that there is a thread complaining about on the test forums. We can move that button to where the status was.


    And when you click on it get a pop up of our three choices, rather than swapping between the two adventure unit types.


    That way to the anti-expedition players the marshals they bought are no longer a token sitting in their star menu for all eternity. You could only send the former marshals to expeditions, but any general to the adventures. A hundred unit general on an adventure is not the most powerful thing in the world, but it has its uses for sacrifice waves and dare I say it lest my whole argument be ignored... blocks... but please. One army.
    One army. Pretty please.

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