Why we hate the Co-op adventures

[Aurboth]

I recently did a co-operative adventure, and a discussion was started regarding these adventures. The majority of experienced players either rarely do them or do not do them at all. There were a few reasons for this. Many players express how difficult it is to get a group of players together to complete them. However, this was not a problem in the past, before the loot revision in last 2014. At that time, groups were running these adventures on a regular basis. The real reason is closer to the fundamental basis of the game, economics.

The issue with the co-op is that they are simply not economical to run, and thus are relegated to the same category as many of the adventures that accumulate in the star menu and never done. The standard adventures are possible to perform with a single person, even when these adventures can be done with more than one person. Although not intended, most players tend to run them solo, and invite others to get an equal reward for token participation. The experience given to the players proportionally to participation, which the loot table is the same for all players. One look at the required troops and the reward is enough to dissuade players from playing them.

For example, the WhirlWind is rated at a level 7 difficulty, with the estimated total maximum shared cost (at the top level) of 3,314 recruits.

Now, look at Black Knights, which is rated a level 9 difficulty, with the estimated cost of 983 recruits (quick version).

Both set use the same troops, and the numbers shown do not use blocking. Essentially it costs more than 3 times the resources to complete the cooperative adventure, while the amount of reward is only a fraction. Even adding the loot together for all 4 players participating in the co-op, it is just over what one person will receive playing the traditional adventure., and there are three players for this multi-player adventure. Even the building has a much higher cumulative rate for the traditional adventure. The same happens for the event resources: Black Knights gives: 0 / 27 / 67, while Whirlwind gives: 0 / 20 / 50. This gives about the same number of eggs total, at a cost of about 3.5x the number of people.

[Wimpy]

Thanks for making this very clear for those who don't understand the economics of the game, especially the developers.

[neetling]

I don't hate the coop adventures. My problem is with the Dark Priest

1. The game ended before I could defeat the last bandit leader although I was several hours away from the official time up for the game. What was the reason for the game ending before the time was up? I played it alone.

2. Secondly, if I cancel an adventure do I get the experience points and resources for the bandit camps I defeated before canceling OR do I lose everything.

[Perwyn]

Back when co-ops 1st came out, it wasn't easy to get 4 people together by any means but with 2 guildmates plus myself really wanting a bone church, we only needed to find a 4th on any given evening. Sometimes we did, sometimes we didn't. We were able to run enough Whirlwinds that it actually dropped 2 bone churches out of a couple dozen runs. That was when the chance was at 5% not .5%. With the current drop rate it's next to impossible to get anyone to run them and who can blame them.

Off topic (sorta) but...... as many Outlaws as I run, you'd think I'd get a pirate residence or two. But again, a ridiculously low drop rate prevents that from happening. Somewhere north of 70 Outlaws and no pirate res?? WTH is that all about??

If whoever figures this stuff out was strapped to a chair for a few months and forced to do what they ask us to do things might change. Games are supposed to be fun. They don't have to be ridiculously easy, but a decent chance at getting "the prize" would go a long way.

[Troll-Phu]

and unless you're the one that started it, the "It's a TRAP!!!" factor plays a lot in it too!

[Raubhautz]

I recently did a co-operative adventure, and a discussion was started regarding these adventures. The majority of experienced players either rarely do them or do not do them at all. There were a few reasons for this. Many players express how difficult it is to get a group of players together to complete them [...] Essentially it costs more than 3 times the resources to complete the cooperative adventure, while the amount of reward is only a fraction. Even adding the loot together for all 4 players participating in the co-op, it is just over what one person will receive playing the traditional adventure., and there are three players for this multi-player adventure. Even the building has a much higher cumulative rate for the traditional adventure. The same happens for the event resources: Black Knights gives: 0 / 27 / 67, while Whirlwind gives: 0 / 20 / 50. This gives about the same number of eggs total, at a cost of about 3.5x the number of people.

Yep, completely true. Certainly, BB has the tools to 'see' that coops are not played heavily (and with the many forum posts regarding the coops, the reasons were pretty clear). Based on the subsequent actions of BB devs/designers, when they nerfed the heck out of the coops, even when the loot was better. to me only says one thing: They really do not care if the players play them or not; consider:

• TSO not only added all of these coops to our Explorer's search lists, but deluged them with these things. Note that we get no relatively accurate drop list any longer (since the Great Nerfing of Fall 2014), though any player who searches for adventures knows - even the newly released 'Very Long Adventure Search' requiring 48h (w/o science) - Why an Explorer of such a search is bringing back Lakeside Treasure as an approximate 5.4% (Whirlwind is acceptable - IMO) is beyond me.
• TSO has yet to include ANY coop adventure to the Sophisticated Pillager list (along with any other adventure appearing post-science release) providing Bonus Quests and more incentive for players to run them.
• TSO has yet to include ANY coop adventure to Main, Daily and/or Side quests, which would provide additional incentive for players at large to take interest.
• TSO has yet to include ANY coop adventure to Guild quests, which should generate interest as it would be a guild achievement for all players in a guild to work towards, ergo serving 2 incentives/purposes.
• TSO has no achievements in the achievement system in regards to Coop adventures. For such a large number of adventures of these types, it is surprising that there are no merits in the achievement system for Coops.

If any BB has any response(s) to the above points (or other posts in this thread), we would really appreciate some insight as to the future (if any) of Coop adventures.

[Ceruhe]

TSO has yet to include ANY coop adventure to Guild quests, which should generate interest as it would be a guild achievement for all players in a guild to work towards, ergo serving 2 incentives/purposes.

Please don't give them any ideas. For all I know, out of all the brilliant solutions we'd give them, they'd pick the worst one and even screw that up.

Endesmor and all you other BBs, Wannabe_BBs and their service maids....forget everything you have read in this posting #7

[CoffeeCat]

* TSO has yet to include ANY coop adventure to Main, Daily and/or Side quests, which would provide additional incentive for players at large to take interest.
* TSO has yet to include ANY coop adventure to Guild quests, which should generate interest as it would be a guild achievement for all players in a guild to work towards, ergo serving 2 incentives/purposes.[/LIST]

These would only serve as tests for how fast a player can click the delete box. I wouldn't do them. They are way, WAY too costly for the reward. Now if BB wants to double/triple the loot/experience/specials drop rates when it is a side/daily/guild quest, THEN maybe players would take interest.

[Koshko]

I don't even bother trying to sell them anymore at this point. I just delete them as I get them. Ditto for a few other adventures.

[humveetech]

I like Whirlwind. I do it a lot. I use it to send my Generals off my island so I can have room to put buildings down & move stuff around. I also like the idea of how Whirlwind which will of course get elected for some strange unknown reason will be put in the Merchant for us to buy with Guild Coins even though I get about 5 a day if I let my Generals look for adventures. But its always the junk gets picked for Guild merchant items it seems

But I am in agreement with the resources, its not enough to justify the losses. There should be more since you have to round up 4 people to actually want to do it since most people know its not worth the payout. Almost like those Expeditions, still want the "X" put on those Generals so I can remove them from my list completely, have no intentions of running another either