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Thread: Drop rate for special event adventure loot

  1. #1
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    Drop rate for special event adventure loot

    To BB team,

    I think you did a good job on the 3x loot option for some Coop adventures and some other adventures that were not getting a lot of attention. The change made them more attractive to run.

    Hopefully, this is constructive criticism on what to address for the next event. This post is about the Easter event, but pertains to all of them.

    I think it is safe to say that the Easter event is all about collecting eggs. Everything revolves around that.

    Player excitement is driven by collecting eggs while doing adventures. And nothing kills the momentum more than receiving zero eggs after running an adventure. Please eliminate this option.

    Personally I had five loot drops in a row that delivered zero eggs. This causes a lot of frustration with the game and concern that the game is broken somehow. This increases complaints and tickets to the support team. Nobody wants this to happen.

    There a few ways to deal with the zero egg drop problem. The easiest for the development team is probably to keep the existing three tiers of 25% = zero, 55% = current base rate and 20% = bonus rate and simply change the drops in those tiers. A suggested drop rate is 25% = 1/2 the current base rate, 55% = current base rate and 20% = double the current base rate.

    Example is as follows, Witch of the Swamp is currently 0, 30, 50. Change this to 15, 30 , 60.

    Doing this would make the event more enjoyable for everyone and it is not a difficult thing to do. There are of course other options for changing the drop rate, but I find them more complicated and the simplest solution is usually a very good one even if it is not the best.

    There are some adventures where the bonus is more than 2x the base rate. I am not suggesting that this be lowered to 2x, but I do understand that it might be necessary. Maybe the bonus could be 2.2x or 2.5 times. Or, perhaps simply change the minimum drop to be 1/2x and not make any other changes.

    If overall egg inflation is a worry to BB, then the spoiler will explain how to do what I am proposing without increasing the total egg count.

    Spoiler



    I realize this could be a concern on your end. But I do think that more eggs is a good thing. However I realize you may be concerned that the overall affect of changing this would be to increase the total amount of eggs on the server by 25% * 50% of the base value. So below you will find the calculation to do what I propose above without increasing the total eggs dropped per adventure server wide.

    A couple of calculations are needed to make this happen. We need the current average payout per adventure and we need to compute what the new base number should be considering that the three tiers will now be paying 1/2 base, base, and 2x base.

    This is fairly straight forward although it takes a lot of words to describe what the numbers are.

    Current average payout... Base * .55 + Bonus * .2 = P

    Then we need the new base payout value. This comes from the current average payout divided by a constant. This has to be done for each adventure. You are probably using a table with 3 entries for each adventure.

    So the entry for Black Knight might look something like
    BK 0, 45, 90.

    The average payout for BK is currently 45*.55 + 90*.2 = 42.75
    We need to spread this average into the same three tiers as before but with a non-zero value in the lowest tier. The equation for that is

    .5x + x + 2x = 42.75
    x = 12.2

    We then need to scale (adjust if you prefer) this number to the current average payout equation.

    (.25*.5*12.2) + (.55*12.2) + (.2*.2*12.2) = 13.115
    13.115/12.2 = 1.075

    This 1.075 is a constant that represents the ratio between the old payout method and the new one and so we can shortcut some of the above calculations for each adventure.

    42.75 is the current average payout. The new base is determined by the current average payout divided by a constant 1.075. So 42.75 / 1.075 = new base = 39.77. We will call that 40.

    The constant is determined from the current probability tiers and the desire to have the new payouts conform to the 1/2x base, base and 2x base values.
    The equation for that is (.5x *.25) + .55x + (.2x * 2) X = 1.075

    So the new base is 40. The BK table entry will look like
    BK: 20, 40, 80

    If we calculate the new average payout based on these number we get .25*.25 + .55*40 + .2*80 = 43 Compare to the original average payout number of 42.75.

    Doing one more example using Witch of the Swamp numbers,
    WotS 0, 30, 50 --- the average is 26.5
    26.5 / 1.075 = 24.65 rounds to 25. So 25 is the new base.

    WotS 13, 25, 50 --- the new average is 27

    I think these numbers are close enough that it will not cause any server egg inflation and players get eggs everytime they run an adventure.



    It should be noted that by removing the zero egg drops from the adventures, you may be causing an increase of players running more adventures. This will increase the overall egg count on the server. But this should be a positive outcome and a measurement of a successful change to the game.

    Please consider making these changes for future events that drop special loot when running adventures.

    Regarding the 3x loot for some adventures. I think this was a great idea and a good approach. I think it should apply to all the COOP adventures. Also, not sure what happened to Sons of the Veld, but this adventure needs the 3x loot bonus applied to it as well.


    Thank you for your time BB and thanks for the game.

  2. #2
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    IT is disheartening to get zero eggs after doing one of the special adventures. Even if it was just 3 or 5 eggs it is better than getting zero eggs. Especially when getting zero eggs several times (that has happened.) To prevent the over proliferation of eggs perhaps decrease the high end a slight bit. Instead of 3x let it be 2.8x or 2.6x eggs. It is still an exciting reward but offsets the few extra given at the low end. Thank you.

  3. #3
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    All those views and no comments? Please add comments. That is how BB measures feedback.

  4. #4
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    All those views and no comments? Please add comments. That is how BB measures feedback.
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    You've been around long enough to know better than that. Even if they follow your example, prices for items will simply increase as well (though it seems we hit "the ceiling" last year as I can't see a price hike on Generals etc unlike before)

    It's not that I'm disliking the idea, contrary to that, I know the agony of 0 runs as well and measuring said emotions up to the time I "have" to spend running adventure, I simply picked the 0 work with results this time around. WotS, 15min travel time, 1min for Gens to setup, send off Gens and go afk to loot. If I get a 0 run now I'm not as bothered since I didn't have any time investment on it. Granted, it's not the most efficiant route to take, but it produces the best results for me currently with little time and even less motivation to run adventures (which could gone up again if they would release a good version of Jog...).

    BBs brilliant "fix" this time around was to triple loot for a handful of adventures. Of that list, Horseback is very viable to noobs, VtV fairly viable with the proper Gens (though I won't really claim efficient regardless) and the rest of the adventures are pretty much an insult. Co-Ops have been terrible right off the get go, the forced multiplayer aspect is killing it, if someone goes afk or whatever, everyone is blocked and slowed down. 2 of those, Motherly Love and Pirate Life are pretty much not available. The drop rate from IotP to get ML has been nerfed to oblivion, nobody is gonna spend 300 gems to get Pirate Life for that return, even if guaranteed.

    Sure, it's likely that many of those listed adventures have gotten some traffic, but still massively dwarfed by BK due to it's "well balanced design™".

    Long story short, doesn't matter what we tell BB, they will ignore nearly all of it. The General skilltree on testserver only had so much success and people have sinked some devoted time into it.

  5. #5
    Settler MitisVis's Avatar
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    I've some old memories rattling around after reading this....winners and "losers",
    JACKPOT and nada...ying and yang, pass and don't pass go...

    Done fairly well and having a good time, but still waiting for flash to really FLASH
    derailing the odds and getting paid 750 eggs for a Witch
    "I am who I am and that's all that I am"
    famous sailor

    Teach a man to fish and he "borrows" all your gear. Sell a man a fish and he's the one who gets the witch tower

  6. #6
    Soldier Saltybeing's Avatar
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    "Player excitement is driven by collecting eggs while doing adventures. And nothing kills the momentum more than receiving zero eggs after running an adventure. Please eliminate this option."

    You are so right about killing the momentum. There's nothing like doing a rotten adventure that's on the list for rewards to be tripped as they are so bad nobody does them, then when you've lost way too many troops finding at the end you aren't getting any eggs either. ~feels the deflated Easter joy~

  7. #7
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    I heartily agree with the concept of getting rid of zero egg drops.

    One of the things I have noticed that has received some attention programming-wise is the collectibles spawning on isles during events. Over time I've watched the variability on what you receive here dwindle to only a single variable: if the player gathers the collectible. I assume that this is because someone complained long enough and loudly enough, or perhaps simply in the right ear that some people were getting skewed results from the island collectibles.

    I'm not saying that such complaints were with or without merit but it's a crying shame that something like that got worked on while something like this was in place. With the RNG results for adventure loot determining a far, far larger percentage of most of our event loot, it really makes me ask if there was a thought process there at all???

    Limited time window currencies such as event currencies from sources like adventures should be moderated in dispersal. Get rid of the zero drops. I frankly don't care if the average handout changes or not, stop taking a dump on the players by handing out zeroes. Customers shouldn't get dumped on. Give em something.

    This is rather evident also with the manuscript recipe drop, though that at least is not limited in time opportunity other than the time that the player has available personally to make tries for it. However, the high number of times many people have tried, and failed, to obtain this recipe makes this worthy of mention in the same post because it's abusive after a certain point. I have racked up so many more books due to getting that recipe early on that I'm going through some 'survivor's guilt' over the situation at this period in time. Because some things should not be trusted to RNG.

    RNG is too cruel at times and we need more evenhanded dispersal of goodies. Down with RNG.

  8. #8
    Mayor Raubhautz's Avatar
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    idk about having to get rid of the '0' egg drops.... seriously if the REAL drop rate was what the wiki shows (25%/50%/25%)....

    Also, like to whine (or whimper, I suppose) about the in-event nerfingi of BK's... The event started pretty swell, hitting the numbers shown above almost spot on .... for 2-3 days into the event, then... BAAAAAMMMM! I hit 2x 4-BK runs of '0' within one day of 17 ls.... followed by a 15BK ls run of '0' eggs?! Now, I realize that each separate adv is an individual 25% and all that, but it is statistical nonsense to get those kind of numbers (17 in a row *.25, yada). I seriously would have had better chances of winning the lottery. Well, can't be 18 in a row as I switched up adv's and more-or less got drops that were on-par. If you do not want us to run an adv, say so, don't hog-tie it mid-stream.
    “Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends.”
    J. R. R. Tolkien

  9. #9
    Noble MM3Lee's Avatar
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    I would suggest that BB keep the current method of having 0 egg drops for most adventures but have some that have guaranteed low egg drops instead of zero (on the tripled this year for example). I would also like to see a sliding scale applied such that the lower level you are, the lower the odds you have of getting zero eggs for adventures you "host" as they need the items from event merchant more (especially generals) and the adventures they can run already drop far fewer of them.

  10. #10
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    Yeah, I was really surprised when I got no eggs on a few adventure runs. I didn't understand why I didn't get any. Especially since I started the Easter event a bit late this year, it's irritating when the expected rewards didn't appear to help out. :/

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