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Thread: General Training Tips and Info

  1. #21
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    thanks for sharing..

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceruhe View Post
    If you consider Vargus a leader killer, it should follow that you would pick Master Planner to affect all 186/201 units instead of just 1 through Lightning Slash. Besides, if they don't live to the Last Strike Phase, they won't bring anything to the table anymore....save for any current bug that will let them attack while dead.
    That seems to be the case. Dead MMAs won't get a second hit. I'm going with 1-Up for sacs. Don't see any use for the other three skills. I was half tempted to give Nusala master planner, but still didn't find it too useful for her either.

  3. #23
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    I was half tempted to give Nusala master planner, but still didn't find it too useful for her either.
    If you are going for generic sacs, 1-up probably is a decent choice for Nusala, Master Planner would set her at 100% accuracy to deal 1500 dmg reliably, every time, letting you reduce margin of error on some blocks and other more tailored sacs.

  4. #24
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    I like how you did the Quartermasters and went with that method myself. The tavern generals are perfect this way too.

    I don't have the higher books to do much more right now, but I did get Anslem almost fully booked. I haven't decided between Lightning Slash or Master Planner yet. I can see both being very useful. Master planner would be better for low round attacks, but combining Lightning Slash with Battle Frenzy would be great in longer fights .. IF Battle Frenzy effects the general and not just the troops themselves. Can anyone verify this? Also I think Overrun is better for Anslem than Juggernaut, even if it's more costly.

    Finally, I'm inclined to put 3 books in both First Aid and Jog on most other generals and make something in the next tiers 2 instead of 3 to save books.

  5. #25
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    Very helpful, it gives me a good reference as to where i might want to start or finish on certain Gens

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erevan View Post
    Deano, thanks for all your work in putting this together. I haven't had a lot of time to try out the range of different generals so this gives me some good ideas to work from. The setups for tavern generals and BHGs are most helpful.

    I think it's a mistake to treat the three COAs the same. The dynamics of their attacks are unique. They may provide a touchstone for players to creatively use other attack advantages that we tend to dismiss as being useful for limited situations. The COAs are specialists in those limited situations! This will require extensive simulating to find out what actually works and what doesn't.

    For example Battle Frenzy is a wasted skill on most generals. I've done some simulations and it doesn't make any difference unless the attack last 4 rounds or more. But BF was made for Anselm. Thanks to his Dazzle ability reducing enemy accuracy, his attacks often last 5, 10 or even 20 rounds and give his heavy troops time to pound away at tough targets. Note that when Anselm makes a quick kill, BF has no effect. But I have found at least one camp each in Wisdom, Oil Lamp and Princess where putting BF on Anselm finishes the attack in fewere rounds and cuts the loss of mounted swordsmen by 20-40 percent, or up to 30 units on a single attack. Including Overrun, Garrison Annex, Weekly Maintenance and Lightning Slash makes additional improvements and can turn Anselm into a meaner killing machine than he already is. I include Weekly Maintenance because those long attacks always rely on Besiegers or Cannons. Admittedly I've done quite a few sims with Beseigers but haven't tried BF out with any of Anselm's Cannon attacks yet.

    I haven't had the opportunity to do much testing with Nusala or Vargus, but I see similar possibilities. For example Vargus's Intercept ability means he often relies on weak but fast first strike units for effective attacks. Unstoppable Charge might improve this effectiveness. I'll almost certainly give 1-Up to Nusala, allowing use of her superior saccing power twice in one adventure without resting. Because in practically every Ali Baba or Evil Queen there are at least two situations where Nusala would make a big difference, but I have to choose another general to sac for one of them. And Fast Learner, while probably valuable on Anselm or Vargus, would be wasted on Nusala, who seldom defeats a camp.

    I'll go back to simulations before making commitments about Nusala and Vargus. FastSIM won't help with decisions about non-attack skills like FL, but I recommend trying it out to enhance their specialized attack abilities before committing so many books.

    Aside from the COAs, one important point: overrun provides no benefit whatsoever for sac generals. Yes, we often send them to whittle down the troops in boss camps, but sacs never touch the boss so reducing his or her hitpoints has no effect. It isn't until the final wave, usually with a Major, Anselm or Vargus, that Overrun will improve the outcome. Yes, I believe there are cases where MMAs effectively kills boss camps, but usually by the time we get there all the MMAs have already been sacced. On MMAs and Nusala I will consider skills other than Overrun.

    Lightning Slash provides little benefit for sac generals because they die in one round, usually before the slow phase when LS takes effect. Master of Defense is the only general that I'm aware sometimes survives to the second round in a sac. LS might still be the best top level skill for MMA and Nusala in other attack situations, but consider carefully before placing that final codex.

    Here's my tentative skills training for Anselm:

    Tier 5: Lightning Slash (a definite yes here, because Anselm more than any other general will use it repeatedly in a single attack.)
    Tier 4: 3x Garrison Annex, 2x Weekly Maintenance
    Tier 3: 3x Battle Frenzy, 2x Fast Learner
    Tier 2: 3x Overrun, 2x Navigation Crash Course
    Tier 1: 3x Jog, 2x First Aid
    I really appreciate the original post here. In my battles I use MMA almost exclusively. I never use MMA for sacs, that is for lesser generals, like the 30 minute ones. I have started investing books in my MMA, and I will follow the suggestions given here. However, it will take a while to complete, so I will not see results for a bit yet.

  7. #27
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    In my battles I use MMA almost exclusively. I never use MMA for sacs
    That sounds like you are fairly new, though according to the profile you are here since 2013, so I'm not quite sure how to adress this. I'll try to make this as simple as possible...

    As time goes on and your selection of Generals expands (Major, CoAs, maybe something in the future) your need for MMAs as attackers starts to diminish due to "bad choice". That of course doesn't negate them for attacks completely or make them only SAC gens, but their needs simply goes down, safe to speed up clearing camps with multiple Gens and (easy) targets along the way, very noticable in pre FT adventures.

    It may be worth (re)considering skill distributions on MMAs with that in mind. Personally, with Majors alone (excluding CoAs) I wouldn't skill MMAs for attacks with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 (that is if you have more than 1 alright) and have the Majors do the lifting, using both Majors and MMAs more efficiently overall. For MMAs as attackers, I can pretty much only see a benefit on FTs due to camp strenght, next to mundane in old adventures (MMA dmg 1ststrike/weakest) due to being really powerful already yet not strong enough for Ali Babas (chances are an unskilled Major will still perform mostly better than a fully combat skilled MMA).

    Just to throw that out to think about as I don't now your overall playstyle at all.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceruhe View Post
    That sounds like you are fairly new, though according to the profile you are here since 2013, so I'm not quite sure how to adress this. I'll try to make this as simple as possible...

    As time goes on and your selection of Generals expands (Major, CoAs, maybe something in the future) your need for MMAs as attackers starts to diminish due to "bad choice". That of course doesn't negate them for attacks completely or make them only SAC gens, but their needs simply goes down, safe to speed up clearing camps with multiple Gens and (easy) targets along the way, very noticable in pre FT adventures.

    It may be worth (re)considering skill distributions on MMAs with that in mind. Personally, with Majors alone (excluding CoAs) I wouldn't skill MMAs for attacks with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 (that is if you have more than 1 alright) and have the Majors do the lifting, using both Majors and MMAs more efficiently overall. For MMAs as attackers, I can pretty much only see a benefit on FTs due to camp strenght, next to mundane in old adventures (MMA dmg 1ststrike/weakest) due to being really powerful already yet not strong enough for Ali Babas (chances are an unskilled Major will still perform mostly better than a fully combat skilled MMA).

    Just to throw that out to think about as I don't now your overall playstyle at all.
    MMA's can be a tricky general. His usage can vary depending if a event is running.

  9. #29
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    My generals
    MG/Vargus/Anslem - The fighting gens
    3 Jog, 2 First Aid, 3 Nav Crash, 3 Overrun, 3 Fast Learner, 3 Battle Frenzy, 3 Garrision Annex, 1 Master Planner
    They are my workhorses

    Nusala - Specialty Sac gen
    3 Jog, 2 First Aid, 3 Rapid Fire, 3 Nav Crash, 3 Sniper Training, 3 Fast Learner, 3 Garrison Annex, 1 1-Up
    I’m taking advantage of her special abilities. Good for 1R sac, great for 180B or 180LB sacs. 1 free sac each adventure. I know the idea of saccing that many LB might seem just wrong to some, but I use a Nusala 180LB sac to replace two 250B vet sacs in BLT final leader.

    MMA - Mostly sac gens, some fighting
    3 Jog, 2 First Aid, 3 Nav Crash
    Book supplies stopped me from going further atm. This keeps them up to speed and positions them to be skilled further when books become available. I plan to use the same pattern as my MGs, except I will most likely use 1-UP instead of Master Planner as I use them more for sac gens than fighting gens.

    Drac/Grim - My tagging gens
    3 Jog, 1 First Aid, 1 Juggernaut, 3 Nav Crash
    This allows Drac to fast tag any FT with just 1R, and recovers the 1R after combat.
    Same for Grim except with 1C.

    Tavern gens - 2 at the moment
    3 Jog, 2 First Aid, 3 Nav Crash
    This lets me get initial blocks started sooner, and they can reposition forward at the same speed as my fighting gens.

  10. #30
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    ok, wow, the initial post in this thread was NOT well thought out AT ALL. first, how can you make the claim that all the CoA gens are the same? Like seriously, what were you smoking when you made that conclusion? Each of the CoA's have their own unique skill set, ignoring Nusala's Bow superiority is beyond insane, how/why anyone would not max out Rapid Fire and Sniper Training is just beyond me, thats like handing soldiers a rifle to fight a battle and only giving them 1/4 load ammo to shoot. Nusala (for my personal guide designs) is one of the best sac Gens for reducing losses loading her up with bowmen and longbowmen drastically reduces a camp for your MG to clean house without losing the expensive heavy troops like canoneers and such, then using Elite troops in AB's without Sniper Training? like come on.

    Also, if not planning on fully booking a tav general, why would you only put 2 into First Aid? With periodic chances of failed blocks, bad timings, being distracted, lag spike, Flash freeze, etc having the tav gen being able to recover more of you lost troops from that failed block is more beneficial that saving yourself 1 manuscript. Now not loading them up all the way and having 1-up is depending on which maps you do most of and how many times you sac those gens doing 1r blocks, if you have all 6 of them and have 1-up plus reduced recovery time, you virtually have unlimited number of tav gens for any one adv (specially if you cycle them right)

    Now, MMA's are most definitely, absolutely Sac gens, each one of these should be skilled as such, with 1-up, First Aid, Jog, Flesh wound at the very least, then you can look at others for fillers to get to the 1-up, like if you use bowmen in your MMA sacs or not, or if 1/2 travel time to adv is really that important to you, etc but those 4 are absolutely important and I would not neglect Juggernaught on MMA's, you want those sacs to do as much damage as possible and since most (at least for me) MMA sacs are 1r sacs, 60 more points of damage absolutely does help a little, so look over the entire picture and maybe reduce NCC by 1 point and recovery by 1 point and get the most out of the damage of the sacs.

    MG's need to have increased troop cap (garrison Annex), Juggernaght (for the splash damage), Overrun, Jog, First Aid, Master Planner and Weekly Maintenance at the very least. If you are using your Sac's properly and reducing the boss camps so your MG can go in and clean up, then you don't really need battle frenzy because there shouldnt be enough troops left for multiple rounds to make it worthwhile, but throw 1 book in there as a filler, fine, but it's not the main skill to look at.

    If you are sac'ing your Nusala, Varg or Anslem and you plan to use them later on in the map, 1-up is kind of a no brainer, specially if you are sac'ing them more than once (which I do, specially in VLT, SLT, CLT), otherwise you are throwing Medi's at them or waiting long times for recovery.


    Drac's and BHG's and Reapers are throw away gens, skill them up for disposal sacs to weaken camps here and there (dracs are a little better because they still have first strike), but these gens (aside from Drac) are a dime a dozen and can load up on them like crazy so not limited like with other gens.

    MG's are main battle workhorse gens, they are the top of the line (currently) for major clean-ups on boss camps and should be skilled for that purpose. If used in conjunction with sac's properly planned out, then you can seriously reduce losses per adventure which is far more valuable then some of the ridiculous ideas being thrown around in here on this thread.

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