Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 36

Thread: Getting the most out of Anselm

  1. #11
    Recruit
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    38
    World
    Ares
    I trained Anselm using the "maximum combat values" configuration given above. So far he is the only general I've fully trained and I've only had the opportunity to run VLT once, but I'm already excited about the results. I simulate skilled Anselm on all the camps. In this configuration he is the best general to kill many of them.

    Based on the Wiki guides (http://settlersonlinewiki.eu/en/adve...ers-slow-loot/) I used Anselm to kill camps 1, 3, 6, 11 (with sac general), 12, 13, 15, 17 (with 2 sacs), and 18, then sacked him on the RR. Anselm is also the best general for camp 5, but Vargus with a 1R MMA sac does just as well. Sec 3 involved too much running back and forth; even with 3x Jog on Anselm it was slow, so I'll work out a different attacker for at least one of those camps in future.

    Using skilled Anselm in this way cut my losses by 430 R, 15 M, and a handful of Soldiers but I failed to make a note of this (about 30 I believe).

    With 2x Fast Learner Anslem brought in at least 3680 exp (based on my total 81680 subtracting the total 78000 for the adv), but the amount would actually be a little higher because a small amount of exp is lost to the loot spotters.

  2. #12
    Recruit
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    38
    World
    Ares

    Update on Anslem's performance

    Here's another update on Anslem's progress so far, using the "maximum combat values" skill tree:



    2x Juggernaut, 3x Jog, 3x Overrun, 2x Navigation Crash Course, 3x Battle Frenzy, 2x Fast Learner, 2x Weekly Maintenance, 3x Garrison Annex, Lightning Slash.

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    Ali Baba and the First Thief

    Using trained Anslem and no other trained generals (except jog on MGs):
    Reduced maximum losses from 199MS & 17K to 139MS & 28M.
    3k+ exp from 2x Fast Learner

    Rather than trying to create a guide, I'll provide Anslem's best attacks on the given camps. I'm not endorsing the following guide, just using it for easy camp number reference:
    http://settlersonlinewiki.eu/en/adve...ith-besiegers/

    All attacks given are fast enough to block where required.

    3: 22MS 62K 4M 60MM (22MS, 4M), attack with untrained Vargus loses 38MS.
    7: 24MS 25AM 116MM (22MS), attack with untrained MG loses 48MS.
    11: 9MS 12M 74AM 70MM (9MS 9M), attack with untrained Anslem loses 27MS 8K.
    16: 35MS 16M 54AM 40MM 20B (35MS 15M), attack with untrained Anslem loses 50MS 9K.

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    Ali Baba, The Young Wood Cutter

    Disappointing results. All the camps are too easy to kill and combat ends too quickly for Anslem's skills to shine. I found no improvement on attacks made by other generals. Improvements on Anslem's own previous attacks reduced losses by around 15 MS. Fast Learner (2x) yielded about 2500 exp.

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    Ali Baba and the Treasure of Wisdom

    Fantastic results!

    Using trained Anslem and otherwise untrained generals reduced maximum losses on this adventure of Mounted Swordsmen from 537 to 444 (that's 17% overall), and Marksmen from 6 to 3. Losses of non-elite sacrifice troops remained approximately the same.
    This general became to the best one to use on a number of camps previously run by Vargus or Major Generals.
    Incidentally, I did some simulations giving Vargus various combat skills and was disappointed to find little improvement on his attacks on this adventure.
    From killing the camps indicated below and with 2x Fast Learner, Anslem earned 12,633 basic experience!! -- I'm very pleased with this.

    Again, here's the Wiki guide for camp number reference:
    http://settlersonlinewiki.eu/en/adve...rs-quick-loot/

    All attacks given are fast enough to block where required.

    1: Any general can kill this camp without losses, but I used Anslem for the FL exp.
    2: (1) NUS 60b, (2) ANS 20MS 48MM 96B (60b 20MS), with untrained Anslem this attack lost 60b and 34MS.
    4: 16MS 149MM (16MS), I lost 1MM on this attack and there's a slight risk of losing up to 10; an untrained fast general loses 33MS.
    9: 18MS 122MM 25B (18MS), untrained Major loses 32MS.
    11: 21MS 90AM 7MM 47B (20MS), untrained Major loses 27MS.
    15: (1) MMA 1r, (2) ANS 20MS 4M 80AM 60MM (19MS 3M), or without the sac use this attack: (1) ANS 24MS 20M 47AM 74MM (24MS 20M), untrained Major loses 39 MS, 6M.
    21: 165MS (54MS), untrained Vargus loses 74MS.
    25: 17MS 148MM (16MS), untrained Anslem loses 25MS.
    27: (1) VAR 1r, (2) ANS 37MS 76AM 52MM (1r, 37MS), with this sacrifice, untrained Major loses up to 70MS.
    28: After suitable sacrifices, trained Anslem can kill this camp losing about 12MS less than an untrained Major. I block camp 26 and send attacks simultaneously to camps 27 and 28, so I had to choose, and the advantage of using Anslem on 27 was greater.

    Overall, trained Anslem gave improved attacks on 2 camps, and replaced other generals as the best attacker for 7 camps (6 of which I used).

    Having Jog on Anslem and 2 Majors helped this move along a lot faster. I wish I'd had it on Vargus. After Vargus and Anslem kill camps 14 and 15, there's a 19 minute walk to the top. We all had to wait for Vargus to arrive and clear camp 17 before we could proceed! I'm not convinced of the value of having Jog on all generals though. Vargus was the only one without it that slowed things down more than a few seconds.

  3. #13
    Settler
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    233
    World
    Ares

    Seriously - Read this



    Enough said!
    Erevan i'm disappointed you would want 60 more damage for Anslem. that is totally unneccessary. 60 damage on 1 troop versus recovering lost troops. Weigh your options, take any & all recovered troops.
    Second, do you run babas? Have you weighed your options of master planner - guaranteed 100% accuracy versus a second attack by Anslem per round?
    No, then let's do the math.
    110 Besiegers at 100% accuracy will do 22000 damage
    110 Besiegers at 90% accuracy at BEST will do ~20,900 damage. How' did I get these results? 99 Besiegers should average 200 damage. the remaining 11 will average 100 damage using the minimum damage they can do.
    And to review what will Anslem do with 2 strikes?
    a second attack will yield another 1000 damage, at best 1500 damage.
    If you are talking about Armored Marksmen & Besiegers about 100 or more. The significance of 100% accuracy is uncanny.

    So what if you are talking about Mounted Marksmen?
    This is where things get interesting. Suppose you have 110 Desert marksmen in a camp with 110 horsemen.
    You want to kill all 110 desert marksmen with first strike so that they don't land a single attack.
    You would only need 22 mounted swordsmen to eat the damage from 110 horsemen since anslem reduces it to 50 damage per horsemen to total 5500 total damage. Versus losing 40 mounted swordsmen using any other general where horsemen do 100 damage each.
    Your Anslem will have room for 145 remaining troops provided you have 3/3 on garrison annex. Now with 145 mounted marksmen with master planner ability - guarantees 100 damage for all mounted marksmen. 143 mounted marksmen will wipe out all 110 desert marksmen & 110 horsemen. 110 desert marksmen * 80 hp = 8800. 110 horsemen * 50 hp = 5500. add it together for 14,300 hit points.
    Desert marksmen will not land a single hit and you will only lose 22 mounted swordsmen.

    And in this situation if you dont have master planner, but lightning slash instead. 143 * .90 = 128
    128 of your mounted marksmen will average 100 damage to total about 12,800 damage plus 50 damage from remaining 15 mounted marksmen for a total of 13,550 damage. that will leave 9 desert marksmen alive to kill your mounted marksmen (because they attack weakest first)

    and what is your lightning slash ability going to do for you here? absolutely nothing. there are numerous scenarios and camps where Anslem is the preferred attacking general because he reduces the first strike troops damage to half (so where you would lose 40 mounted swordsmen on a major or even vargus(where flanking is not necessary) you can lose 20) IF you use Anslem wisely - not like a noob


    Forget adventures that are not elite troop viable. You can keep Anslem with lightning slash if your not talking about babas or never will.

  4. #14
    Recruit
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    38
    World
    Ares
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellvena View Post
    You can keep Anslem with lightning slash if your not talking about babas or never will.
    It sounds like you didn't read the whole guide or chose to ignore my examples and discussion of Ali Babas. Besides the fact that the VLT 2 Giants camp would be familiar to all I players over level 42, it was the only camp I could find that illustrated an effect of all the combat skills most beneficial to Anslem. That's why I chose it.

    In all my Ali Baba sims, just two or sometimes three skills appeared to enhance the attack, with different skills standing out depending on the situation. Overrun, Battle Frenzy and/or Garrison Annex usually had the greatest effect.

    You're correct that Anslem is the best general in some situations where Dazzle cuts first strike damage in half, and you provide a good theoretical example with numbers. However, I simulated various skill sets to measure their performance against different Ali Baba camps . You'll be disappointed to learn there was seldom much benefit from either Lightning Slash or Master Planner. Where I did find a marginally better performance, it was with Lightning Slash, in situations where long combat times allowed it to synergize with Battle Frenzy.

    I have an example to test your theory: in Treasure of Wisdom there's a camp (#25 in my previous run-through of the adventure) that contains 60 Horsemen, 60 Dune Marksmen, 60 Desert Marksmen, and 1 Mysterious Thief. So it resembles your theoretical example. Untrained Anslem is the best general to kill this camp, and can do so in 3 rounds with a loss of 20 Mounted Swordsmen max. If you train Anslem with other relevant combat skills plus Master Planner, he can kill it in 2 rounds with a loss of 16 MS. Same result with Lightning Slash: 2 rounds with a loss of 16 MS. Master Planner might be the better skill than Lightning Slash for this kind of attack, but in this case the difference amounts to nothing.

    In my run-through of TOW, trained Anslem replaced Majors, Vargus or other generals as the best attacker for 7 camps. I had already trained Anslem when I did this run-through, so I didn't try simulations using Master Planner for comparison on the rest. But most or all of the 7 include first strikers and many also include bosses or leaders. So Hellvena, if you want to back up your theory, there's where you might find evidence.

    I believe training skills can make Anslem better than any other general at killing bosses. That's why I chose Lightning Slash for synergy with Overrun, Battle Frenzy, and yes, Juggernaut.

    I didn't recommend 60 extra damage from Juggernaut, only 40. But that's twice per round, and increasing by 30% every round. Anslem works by defending troops, so rather than recovering troops afterward, I would give the army an offensive edge for as many combat situations as possible. However, as stated in the guide, I found no benefit from Juggernaut in my sims on Ali Babas. So I would expect players who are only interested in Ali Babas to choose another skill.

  5. #15
    Recruit
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    38
    World
    Ares
    Thanks BB for spotlighting this guide. I'm honoured!

    I hope to post more guides soon for those who have requested, but I'm still researching the possibilities for training different generals. My advice for Vargus will not deviate as far from the suggestions posted by other players like Evil_J. In particular I believe Master Planner is the best top tier skill for Vargus. However, I stand by my recommendation that Lightning Slash makes Anslem a crazy killer, and my experience continues to confirm this.

    Having only Anslem and Vargus fully trained so far, I consistently achieve lower troop losses than the published Ali Baba skill guides. The difference is due to Anslem's stunning ability to outperform Major Generals in many situations, especially against boss camps. Vargus's and Anslem's performance does not improve drastically in Wood Cutter because the attacks are already quick and easy. However, in the three Thief adventures, Treasure of Wisdom and Oil Lamp, I have been using Anslem and Vargus as the main attack generals, with Majors doing backup on a few camps that are too big for the COAs, or where using more than 2 generals will allow things to move faster without too much troop loss. Once fully trained the Majors will perform better, but not with such impressive improvements as the COAs.

    Stay tuned!

  6. #16
    Mayor
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,287
    World
    Ares
    I didn't do it for Anselm, but very satisfied with juggernaut on my sac gens.

  7. #17
    Recruit
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    10
    World
    Ares
    Quote Originally Posted by Erevan View Post
    ...
    In all my Ali Baba sims, just two or sometimes three skills appeared to enhance the attack, with different skills standing out depending on the situation. Overrun, Battle Frenzy and/or Garrison Annex usually had the greatest effect.

    You're correct that Anslem is the best general in some situations where Dazzle cuts first strike damage in half, and you provide a good theoretical example with numbers. However, I simulated various skill sets to measure their performance against different Ali Baba camps . You'll be disappointed to learn there was seldom much benefit from either Lightning Slash or Master Planner. Where I did find a marginally better performance, it was with Lightning Slash, in situations where long combat times allowed it to synergize with Battle Frenzy.

    I have an example to test your theory: in Treasure of Wisdom there's a camp (#25 in my previous run-through of the adventure) that contains 60 Horsemen, 60 Dune Marksmen, 60 Desert Marksmen, and 1 Mysterious Thief. So it resembles your theoretical example. Untrained Anslem is the best general to kill this camp, and can do so in 3 rounds with a loss of 20 Mounted Swordsmen max. If you train Anslem with other relevant combat skills plus Master Planner, he can kill it in 2 rounds with a loss of 16 MS. Same result with Lightning Slash: 2 rounds with a loss of 16 MS. Master Planner might be the better skill than Lightning Slash for this kind of attack, but in this case the difference amounts to nothing.

    In my run-through of TOW, trained Anslem replaced Majors, Vargus or other generals as the best attacker for 7 camps. I had already trained Anslem when I did this run-through, so I didn't try simulations using Master Planner for comparison on the rest. But most or all of the 7 include first strikers and many also include bosses or leaders. So Hellvena, if you want to back up your theory, there's where you might find evidence.

    I believe training skills can make Anslem better than any other general at killing bosses. That's why I chose Lightning Slash for synergy with Overrun, Battle Frenzy, and yes, Juggernaut.

    ...
    So i did a quick mathematical exercise with that original camp you used and so per your performance you got:
    Ans +3x J +3x O +3x Battle Frenzy
    Best Attack: 65 R, 14 S, 1 E, 70 K
    (losses: 65 R, 10-14S)
    time on barracks 0:55:16
    lasts 7-8 rounds

    for the sake of time i used a control form a simulator https://www.settlerscombatsimulator....4/0_Recruit=65
    Is 20-23 rounds

    and so with my calcs:
    Avg damg dmg Normal total master total
    Anslem 1 1250 1300 1250 1300
    Recruit 65 26 28.5 1690 1852.5
    Soldier 14 37 39 518 546
    E. Soldier 1 38 40 38 40
    Cannon 70 114 120 7980 8400

    Normal damage over 20 rounds 229520
    To reach damage with master planner 18.90843185

    I save about 1 round? So i guess for those enemy camps that require long battles battle frenzy is more worth it in terms of overall damage, i guess perhaps a next step would be for someone to do when is the number of normal rounds the dividing point

    i guess time to reset my books?

  8. #18
    Recruit
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    38
    World
    Ares
    Quote Originally Posted by cleee View Post
    So i guess for those enemy camps that require long battles battle frenzy is more worth it in terms of overall damage, i guess perhaps a next step would be for someone to do when is the number of normal rounds the dividing point
    Here is an example: the leader camp at the south end of the first sector in 2nd Thief, containing 90 Sword Wielder, 100 Horseman, and 1 Snooty Thief.

    Untrained Anslem
    65MS 85AM (lose max 65 MS, 11 rounds)

    Anslem with the maximum combat skills recommended in my post: 2x J, +3x O, +3x BF, +2x WM, +3x GA, + LS
    42MS 57AM 66MM (lose max 41MS, 5-6 rounds)

    Anslem with the same skills minus Battle Frenzy: +2x J, +3x O, +2x WM, +3x GA, + LS
    49MS 55AM 60MM (lose 47-49MS, 8-9 rounds)

    Anselm with the same skills but switching Master Planner for Lightning Slash: +2x J, +3x O, +2x WM, +3x GA, +MP
    51MS 76AM 38MM (lose 49-51MS, 8 rounds)

    Without either LS or MP the losses are around 50-52MS. The other skills saving around 15 MS here are Overrun and GA combined.

    So Battle Frenzy alone saves 10 MS. There is only a marginal benefit from either Lightning Slash (~3 MS) or Master Planner (~1 MS).

    A lot of people assume that if we give skills to all our generals they will all get the same benefits. This is not the case. In one camp in Treasure of Wisdom (first camp south of the landing zone) where a Major loses 28 MS in 1 round, untrained Anslem loses 37 MS. But give Anslem Garrison Annex and he loses only 16 MS. It doesn't matter what skills you give the Major, he will still lose 37. Niether Lightning Slash nor Master Planner has any effect in this situation.

    What I'm discovering from extensive ongoing simulation is that battle skills are more likely to benefit generals in long combat than in short combat. And the COAs benefit more than other generals. I can give lots of example where battle skills dramatically improve the COAs' performance but have no effect whatsoever on Majors, like in the TOW example above. Vargus mostly gets a lot better at what he already does, but also handles a few boss camps more deftly. Anslem gets better at what he does but also gets a lot better at handling boss camps, so he replaces the Major as the best general in a lot of cases.

    For example in 3rd Thief (with only Anslem and Vargus having combat skills) I now use Anslem, Vargus, 1 Major, 2 regular blockers and 1 QM. Anslem and Vargus are the best attackers for every camp except two, where I send the Major. I don't do any sacs but I still lose fewer troops than Evil_J's skilled generals guide. The challenge is figuring out where to send my two main attackers so I don't have to wait too much. I'm taking my time figuring out how to train the Majors because there skills will have less impact, so I want to figure out how to make best use of them. I'm considering training one to be an expert on the few bosses Anslem or Vargus can't handle, the other in difficult side camps that might call for specialist skills like Unstoppable Charge. But it's going to take more work -- and more evidence before I'm ready to make recommendations.

  9. #19
    Settler
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    233
    World
    Ares
    Quote Originally Posted by Erevan View Post
    That's why I chose Lightning Slash for synergy with Overrun, Battle Frenzy, and yes, Juggernaut.
    I'm not going to argue that it makes perfect sense to have synergy with these abilities for Anslem. However you still fail to see the point of battle mechanics as a whole.

    The point is to defeat all normal initiative enemy troops or last strike initiative enemy troops before they can land a single blow to damage your army. Or at least as many as possible.

    When you give Anslem lightning slash instead of master planner your doing 2 things that hurt the proficiency of Anslem' army when attacking.

    1 - Your first strike assassins such as Mounted Marksmen fail to have guaranteed 100 splash damage which helps wipe out enemy troops who have normal initiative and last strike initiative with minimal or 0 losses. Your normal initiative armored marksmen fail to have the guarantee of 200 damage when it matters most against heavy hitting last strike troops or bosses.

    2 - Your only strengthening Anslem to do 1000 damage as Last strike - so he does his bonus damage at the very end of the fight similar to 5 besiegers. This bonus damage will not kill any troops with normal or last strike initiative before they already hurt your army.


    I have compared simulations of battles using my skill tree for Anslem, and your skill tree.
    All these camps can be found in Ali Babas and i believe the bottom 4 are from Wisdom. This is just a handful that I found, I'm sure there are more that have a profound edge with master planner replacing lightning slash.




    For those wondering which Erevan Anslem skill tree was used for the simulated table with the horrendous losses.
    Spoiler
    Quote Originally Posted by Erevan View Post
    2x Juggernaut, 3x Jog, 3x Overrun, 2x Navigation Crash Course, 3x Battle Frenzy, 2x Fast Learner, 2x Weekly Maintenance, 3x Garrison Annex, Lightning Slash.


    Clearly you can see your build fails on many accounts. Rather than efficiently destroying your enemies earlier in the combat round you choose to give the bonus of doing damage at the end of it costing you damage by surviving enemies.

    It's not that I disapprove of your guide, I think it's well written and deserves high praise. But your perception of battle mechanics is wrong and you seem to think that it's right even when it clearly is not.

    A skill tree for most players can arguably be a one time decision unless their paid players that can choke up 1000 gems. Or a resource rich player that can choke up 50% of his or her books.
    The point is to provide the best options so that no player has to come to you in regret down the road with questions such as these
    Quote Originally Posted by cleee View Post
    i guess time to reset my books?
    I'm pretty sure every player will regret their skill trees in the future. We can help prevent this by providing the proper tips and guides so that they don't ever have to face regret. I wouldn't change anything on My Anslem skill tree because I already simulated every adventure and found it to be the best masterful build that minimizes elite troop losses.


  10. #20
    Mayor Perwyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    The Shire
    Posts
    1,410
    World
    Zeus
    I find it interesting that both of you skip Unstoppable Charge. Combined with Master Planner, 3 tomes here guarantees that Knights do 73 dmg, with splash dmg, so it can be pretty powerful, when combined with Battle Frenzy, even more so.

    Not saying anybody's necessarily wrong or right, but I am noticing people overlooking the power of Unstoppable Charge. Yes, it's useless for Vargus since he never uses Knights, but all my other attack generals have it. I skipped Navigation and Fast Learner, so maybe that explains it on my end.
    "Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking." ~ Marcus Aurelius

Reply to Thread

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts