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Thread: [Feedback] Dev Diary Weekly Challenges & Training Grounds

  1. #61
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    Yeah the new ship actually is secretly code named "the titanic". It requires a record number of resources and people, goes really fast, and sinks to the bottom of the ocean. I am ignoring the questline until they actually make it fun. ya know "fun". keyword here folks.. a game is supposed to be FUN and enhancements should enhance the FUN.

    clicking a quest to destroy thousands of elite troops ... is not FUN. cannot say how disappointed i am in this ship quest line. sad, because with a few minor tweaks it could actually be "fun". there is that word again.

    i.e. dont make me kill my most precious troops with a click. let adventures do that. i.e. dont tell me i have to do specific quests that no one does normally because they are not "fun". give a list and a wide range of adventures to do.

    And yes I can and will ignore the ship quests until they make them fun, but still extremely disappointed at the dev team for this. what a sad sad sad waste.

    my 2 cents

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB_Odhran View Post
    I will be sure to pass this information on. Thank you all for the input of this.

    -BB_Odhran
    I hope that you'll pass on more than just the information (ie specific complaints).

    The fact that, within 24hrs of launch, the near universal opinion of players across the spectrum of experience is that this is poorly executed and provides an appalling return on the time and resources invested. When even L60+ players with troves of resources are unwilling to burn them to complete the tasks the Dev Team should be sitting up and taking notice. If we can figure this out in such a short timeframe, then it says something about the awareness of the Dev Team that they rolled this out expecting we were going to think it was a positive move.

    In writing we would call the current state of the Weekly Challenges a 'First Draft'. Full of ideas, but lacking in continuity, structure, and balance. It's still quite a ways from being ready for even a private Beta, let alone a roll-out. The Challenge Adventure requirements are hard enough to complete in a week on their own, but when the player has to decide between their regular Adventure goals and the new Weekly ones...the Weekly ones come up short every time. There are simply too many bottlenecks in the system that have been ignored by BB over the years to dump onerous requirements that can only be mitigated (not solved, just made less of a pain in the butt) by serious Gem spending.

    ...unless the real goal of the Weekly Challenges is to be just difficult enough that BB figures the space-limited higher-level players are more likely to drop a few Gems here and there to skip phases in pursuit of the Tokens to upgrade their Population Capacity.

    As it stands in our Guild, the nonsensical Adventure phase is grinding most people to a halt and they are wandering off in pursuit of more rewarding activities.

  3. #63
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    Okay- I just got to that step of the quest chain and WOW. This is utter ********!

    Heart of the Woods?? Sorry for the language but the developers must be retarded. Or whoever the quest designer is for this challenge.

    Let me directly quote the Dev Diary:

    "What they do not contain is any luck-based tasks, such as treasure hunts; this means you can more predictably complete these challenges with some consistency, without the fear of running out of time due to bad luck."

    This is totally ******** false. The luck-based 1% drop of Heart of the Woods. Sorry, but the adventure/scenario is not easily available to players.

    I do not have that Heart of the Wild. And Riches of the Mountain is ALSO luck based drop. If these adventures were something I can buy from the Adventure with map frag, then I can understand or we're actually GIVEN the adventures (like holiday events, you're given the adventure map).

    Quote Originally Posted by sanadar1 View Post
    Yeah the new ship actually is secretly code named "the titanic". It requires a record number of resources and people, goes really fast, and sinks to the bottom of the ocean. I am ignoring the questline until they actually make it fun. ya know "fun". keyword here folks.. a game is supposed to be FUN and enhancements should enhance the FUN.

    clicking a quest to destroy thousands of elite troops ... is not FUN. cannot say how disappointed i am in this ship quest line. sad, because with a few minor tweaks it could actually be "fun". there is that word again.

    i.e. dont make me kill my most precious troops with a click. let adventures do that. i.e. dont tell me i have to do specific quests that no one does normally because they are not "fun". give a list and a wide range of adventures to do.

    And yes I can and will ignore the ship quests until they make them fun, but still extremely disappointed at the dev team for this. what a sad sad sad waste.

    my 2 cents
    So basically, I just wasted all that other effort on completing the previous sub quests for some meaningless XP.

    I'm more than just disappointed with this update/challenge feature. You guys are just out of your minds thinking this is a content upgrade/update that we'll accept with joy.

  4. #64
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    well said astrum. Or unfortunately more rewarding games (( Even though you can choose to ignore the ship quests, it is really infuriating many players especially the higher level players.

  5. #65
    Mayor RonEmpire's Avatar
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    This is exactly the problem with old Crisis Event Questline where it was heavily dependent on "luck" based drops.

    Haven't you guys learned anything from that???

    Saying we can complete this without fear of running out of time due to bad luck <--- FALSE. The luck here is finding the adventure maps itself.

  6. #66
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    The economy of this is pretty much unsustainable for the high level players, due to the 3 Temple of Wisdom quest.
    In order for this to occur, you need to have the following happen in the server population (on average)
    Find 24 Woodcutters (searches/BLT loots)
    Run 24 Woodcutters (get 4 each of 1st, 2nd, 3rd thief adventures).
    Run 4 2nd thief (get 2 Wisdoms from 8 loots at 25%)
    Run 4 3rd thief (get 2 Wisdoms from 4 loots at 50%)
    Run 3 Wisdoms. Quest complete, 1 Wisdom remains.

    That is a lot of work that needs to go on just to get one person's challenge completed. More than even any high level player can do totally on their own on an ongoing weekly basis. So they will be relying on obtaining wisdoms (or maybe 2nd/3rd) from those lower than 66. But considering that every week, successful or not, about 1/4 of the high level population will be tasked with trying to get their 3 Wisdom adventures. The population of the server as a whole will likely not be able to keep up with this overall demand. And that doesn't even include the fact that those players under 66 will probably not be interested in surrendering all their Wisdoms to feed the needs of the top level players.

    This narrow focus on a single adventure that takes a huge amount of effort simply to cause it to come into existence will eventually cause that weekly challenge to be summarily skipped most of the time because there just aren't enough of them server-wide to make it happen.

    So we'll have to get our tokens from the other three possible challenges.

    Oh, wait, one of them requires a Sinbad and the Besieged city? Mathematically, Treasure of Knowledge is equally as difficult to obtain as Treasure of Wisdom and Besieged city is a 25% drop from Knowledge, so Besieged is at best four times as difficult to obtain as Wisdom. Add in the distaste factor (Knowledge is so troop and time heavy that most players avoid it when possible) and the number of Besieged adventures that appear server-wide is going to be way less than the Wisdoms.

    So, top level players now have 2 of the 4 weekly challenges that will need to be skipped most of the time due to lack of available adventures.

    At least Storm Recovery is somewhat readily available although expensive to run. And Whirlwind is easy and available; it's just annoying.

    So we top level players have 2 of our 4 weekly challenges that will need to be skipped on a frequent basis due to the lack of access to the required adventures. Great!

    And looking at some of the lower level requirements I see a number of adventures that must be run in multiples but are only available from adventure searches that have miniscule drop rates. Let's see, 3 heart of the woods at 1% = 300 adventure searches on average for that weeks challenge.

    The math shows that there simply will NOT be enough of these adventures available, especially once current stockpiles of them are used up, for all the players to have a chance at their weekly challenges. But what does this mean for the players, and the game overall?

    Two things will happen.
    One) Some players will get aggressive to get what they need. And this will result in economic conflict in the trade office as everyone goes after the adventures that are now always in demand and always in perpetual short supply. As trade wars intensify for these scarce commodities, interpersonal conflicts will arise.
    Two) some players will simply give up on weekly challenges, being too frustrated by the requirements to obtain (and the associated hassle, uncertainty, conflict, and drama) such specific adventures from a small availability pool.

    Neither having players at each others throats for access to a scarce item nor having them being totally frustrated by being unable to participate in this feature is good for the overall health of the game.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonEmpire View Post
    Okay- I just got to that step of the quest chain and WOW. <snip>

    Heart of the Woods?? <snip>
    This right here.

    People in our Guild have to do this Adventure. None of us have it (or in many cases have ever had it). I'm L60 and don't recall ever seeing it in over five years of regular playing. I don't even know 'how' to get it.*

    What the heck is it doing as a requirement for *anything*, especially a Weekly Challenge (which means presumably it will be coming around regularly)?

    This means that whatever the frequency is for us getting Heart of the Woods as a requirement is now the minimum frequency for failing to complete the Weekly Challenges. It sounds like the Dev Team needs to spend less time playing in God-mode and more playing with the limitations of actual players.


    *Apparently it's a 1% drop from Medium Treasure Searches. Aside from random Event requirements, I haven't run a Medium Treasure Search since I was able to run anything higher. So I have to give up my Prolonged (which have decent returns for the time invested) to run hundreds of Mediums in the hope of maybe picking up a few Heart of the Woods for when those come around.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by AstrumLuxLucis View Post
    This right here.

    People in our Guild have to do this Adventure. None of us have it (or in many cases have ever had it). I'm L60 and don't recall ever seeing it in over five years of regular playing. I don't even know 'how' to get it.*

    What the heck is it doing as a requirement for *anything*, especially a Weekly Challenge (which means presumably it will be coming around regularly)?

    This means that whatever the frequency is for us getting Heart of the Woods as a requirement is now the minimum frequency for failing to complete the Weekly Challenges. It sounds like the Dev Team needs to spend less time playing in God-mode and more playing with the limitations of actual players.


    *Apparently it's a 1% drop from Medium Treasure Searches. Aside from random Event requirements, I haven't run a Medium Treasure Search since I was able to run anything higher. So I have to give up my Prolonged (which have decent returns for the time invested) to run hundreds of Mediums in the hope of maybe picking up a few Heart of the Woods for when those come around.

    And the quest requires you to do 3 of them. WTF is that ???? I have never seen that in all my years of sending out explorers for adventure searches.

    If you're going to make us do an adventure map, either provide players with the actual map, OR put it up in the shop for us to purchase with map fragments. You're already charging us coins for the quest- at least give us the maps.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister_Blister View Post
    The economy of this is pretty much unsustainable for the high level players, due to the 3 Temple of Wisdom quest.
    In order for this to occur, you need to have the following happen in the server population (on average)
    Find 24 Woodcutters (searches/BLT loots)
    Run 24 Woodcutters (get 4 each of 1st, 2nd, 3rd thief adventures).
    Run 4 2nd thief (get 2 Wisdoms from 8 loots at 25%)
    Run 4 3rd thief (get 2 Wisdoms from 4 loots at 50%)
    Run 3 Wisdoms. Quest complete, 1 Wisdom remains.

    That is a lot of work that needs to go on just to get one person's challenge completed. More than even any high level player can do totally on their own on an ongoing weekly basis. So they will be relying on obtaining wisdoms (or maybe 2nd/3rd) from those lower than 66. But considering that every week, successful or not, about 1/4 of the high level population will be tasked with trying to get their 3 Wisdom adventures. The population of the server as a whole will likely not be able to keep up with this overall demand. And that doesn't even include the fact that those players under 66 will probably not be interested in surrendering all their Wisdoms to feed the needs of the top level players.

    This narrow focus on a single adventure that takes a huge amount of effort simply to cause it to come into existence will eventually cause that weekly challenge to be summarily skipped most of the time because there just aren't enough of them server-wide to make it happen.

    So we'll have to get our tokens from the other three possible challenges.

    Oh, wait, one of them requires a Sinbad and the Besieged city? Mathematically, Treasure of Knowledge is equally as difficult to obtain as Treasure of Wisdom and Besieged city is a 25% drop from Knowledge, so Besieged is at best four times as difficult to obtain as Wisdom. Add in the distaste factor (Knowledge is so troop and time heavy that most players avoid it when possible) and the number of Besieged adventures that appear server-wide is going to be way less than the Wisdoms.

    So, top level players now have 2 of the 4 weekly challenges that will need to be skipped most of the time due to lack of available adventures.

    At least Storm Recovery is somewhat readily available although expensive to run. And Whirlwind is easy and available; it's just annoying.

    So we top level players have 2 of our 4 weekly challenges that will need to be skipped on a frequent basis due to the lack of access to the required adventures. Great!

    And looking at some of the lower level requirements I see a number of adventures that must be run in multiples but are only available from adventure searches that have miniscule drop rates. Let's see, 3 heart of the woods at 1% = 300 adventure searches on average for that weeks challenge.

    The math shows that there simply will NOT be enough of these adventures available, especially once current stockpiles of them are used up, for all the players to have a chance at their weekly challenges. But what does this mean for the players, and the game overall?

    Two things will happen.
    One) Some players will get aggressive to get what they need. And this will result in economic conflict in the trade office as everyone goes after the adventures that are now always in demand and always in perpetual short supply. As trade wars intensify for these scarce commodities, interpersonal conflicts will arise.
    Two) some players will simply give up on weekly challenges, being too frustrated by the requirements to obtain (and the associated hassle, uncertainty, conflict, and drama) such specific adventures from a small availability pool.

    Neither having players at each others throats for access to a scarce item nor having them being totally frustrated by being unable to participate in this feature is good for the overall health of the game.
    Not to mention they just had an event which cleared almost all of the ToW out of people's inventories .

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister_Blister View Post
    Two) some players will simply give up on weekly challenges, being too frustrated by the requirements to obtain (and the associated hassle, uncertainty, conflict, and drama) such specific adventures from a small availability pool.
    ...which is already happening, less than 48hrs into the 'upgrade'. I can only imagine that it isn't likely to improve over time.

    Possible fixes:

    1) (this is the biggie) Eliminate the requirement for a specific named Adventure/Scenario. Replace with requirement for a class or category (ie Ali Baba, Scenario, Difficulty 9+/etc, Co-op, and so on).

    2) Increase the timeframe to (for example) two or three weeks and/or allow 0-2 or 0-3 'Weekly' Challenges to be running at once, each with their own countdown. So they 'start' once per week, but players have longer to finish each one than the current 168hrs.

    Personally, I'm a fan of combining the two, because at this point the alternative (ie status quo) is most players simply skipping the Challenges altogether.

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