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Thread: [Feedback] Dev Notes Weekly Challenges

  1. #11
    Mayor RonEmpire's Avatar
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    The biggest problem is the maps/adventures not easily accessible to the players.

    Going back to the idea that this game will NOT dependent on the "luck" factor a treasure drop- map drops from adventure searches are the EXACT same thing as a treasure drop.

    Maybe provide the adventures when the challenges are given (like holiday events, we're given the maps). or offer it as map fragments. You're already requiring resources from us. I do not see why providing us the map wouldn't be so bad. Or fix your quest designs so that the first quest - makes us pay X map fragments.


    The game is currently unbalanced as is with the player gaps. The time required between the player levels is just staggering.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevlaar View Post


    Respectfully, I disagree. This is a game of strategy. Choices must be made and those choices must have consequences. Why would there be an expectation for "EVERYONE should be able to get SOME tokens each WEEK" - not everything in this game (or life, for that matter) is a participation trophy; sometimes there are Challenges.

    That said, maybe it wouldn't break the underlying premise of the challenge if it borrowed a behavior from the daily quests, where if the weekly is not completed in the week, then the next weekly spawns into a holding area and is locked until the prior weekly is completed. Premium can have 2 weeklies in holding. If you give up on the current weekly and 'X' it out, the next weekly becomes available. I realize part of the Weekly Challenge concept is to have the Crisis time crunch, so this suggestion might not be feasible if the consequence of not getting the next weekly is an insufficient motivator...but it would be a middle ground that would allow more players to achieve tokens while still requiring effort. Maybe the token reward could be reduced by a third of the original for each extra week: 9 tokens if completed in week 1, 6 tokens if in week 2, 3 tokens if in week 3. At the end of the 3rd week, the quest line fails and a new weekly spawns. The diminishing returns would preserve the value of the tokens and still reward those putting in the effort (and resources) to complete the challenge in the first week. Or maybe a reduction by half each extra week: 9, 4, 2.
    I really don't think there is any need to alter the basic design of these. I would like to know why that poster feels people can't complete these. Other than the adventure issue which I think should be addressed, the only people who I know are having problems are some low levels who leveled up almost solely through those loot spot mini-quests from fairy tales and ali babas and as a consequence are short in the general department because they have only been playing a few months and are lvl 50 or so. I am not sure giving lvl 30s the same xp for those quests is intended or not but it appears to be a fairly popular way to lvl up now.

  3. #13
    Mayor Perwyn's Avatar
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    The only objection I have to these is the adventure & co-op requirements.

    If instead of running 3 ToW's or 1 BC I could select from a list of all Ali adventures except YWC, I'd be fine with that, as I almost always have a number of follow ups to choose from. Knowing they'd be required for the quest would mean me having to hang onto them for when they're needed. So a small amount of restraint & planning required on my part to be able to do the quests.

    No Co-ops. Please.

    Having to make 445 besiegers and then toss them is something most people don't want to do. I understand why you've included those types of things in the challenges and I'd grudgingly do them if I have to. Having said that, I know people who cancel their daily quest that requires delegating 25 knights so they're never, ever going to do this part. However, if they had to run an adventure losing at least 445 Mounted Swordsmen, they'd likely be OK with it because they feel they're getting something for the loss of troops. I say this based on conversations I've had, not because I think I'm some kind of mind reader.

    The idea of listing all parts of the quest in advance is a sound one. Maybe it could be done similar to how tasks are listed for events, in the screen that drops down from under our avatars. That way the timing aspect won't be affected, but we'll know if we want to pursue the quest or not.
    "Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking." ~ Marcus Aurelius

  4. #14
    Mayor RonEmpire's Avatar
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    yes- I agree. Co-op adventures really should be removed from the requirements.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narasn View Post
    Everyone can get some tokens each week - why can't they. It would be helpful if you indicate why they can't.
    It's not a question of "can't" but more a question of "won't".
    The Challenge was designed purposely to be difficult, time consuming and expensive. They were designed with the idea in mind that not everyone will do them.
    For any given weekly, a person could go all out and get it done, spending thousands of gc to buy adventures, using expensive buffs to speed resource and troop creation, and spending time to manage each task efficiently.

    But it's not something most people want or can do every week. We don't have to guess about this. I'm sure BB will monitor the challenge participation rate. Perhaps 20%, 30%, or 40% is what they are aiming for. I believe the participation rate should, over the course of a month, be more like 80%.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kevlaar View Post
    Respectfully, I disagree. This is a game of strategy. Choices must be made and those choices must have consequences. Why would there be an expectation for "EVERYONE should be able to get SOME tokens each WEEK" - not everything in this game (or life, for that matter) is a participation trophy; sometimes there are Challenges.
    The reason why everyone should be able to get some tokens is that this game is supposed to be fun, and BB wants people to keep playing it. Getting tokens is cool and should be more accessible to those who have limited time to play, or who have more limited resources.

    It's the balance between challenge and frustration. The current incarnation of Weekly Challenge is tipped too far toward frustration.

    Offering tokens in stages for the Challenge is an easy way to restore a good balance.

  6. #16
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    In their current state, weekly challenges for higher level players are completely broken. Hopefully the plan is more than just minor tweaks.

    Woodcutter for map fragments is nice, but does not help even a little or show an understanding of the problem. Having enough Woodcutter is not the problem. I have over 100 of them despite running them constantly. I have never run TOK, and don't intend to do so. In order to obtain a Besieged City, which I have never run and don't intend to either, this is what I have to do: run 48 Woodcutters to get 8 First Thieves to run to get 4 TOKs to run, and then I have to go through Besieged City. Every month. While also running 72 Woodcutters to get 12 Second Thieves to run to get 3 TOWs, which actually is not a bad adventure, but I don't have that many of them. The ask is not to run Besieged City. It's to spend all my time hoping to get lucky enough to get it in the first place. Offer Besieged City for map fragments, and I might consider it. The other choices aren't much more appealing. Co-op adventure? No. Not even one. Not even maybe. Storm Recovery? Okay, this one's maybe not that bad. Resource sink but easily obtainable.

    I'm fine with a challenge or resource sink. I'm not fine being asked to spend millions of resources or do adventures I cannot obtain or three of something I would not even consider doing once. By my level, I have 37k population, 43% of which are unemployed, and I don't really "need" any more. I like to add more, but I'm not going to sacrifice every other bit of playing time and all my resources for it.

    The quest description says complete one adventure from the following list. Then it proceeds to list one. Maybe it would be more feasible if the list were an actual list and players could choose one of a few adventures to do.

    In any case, it should be known what all the tasks will be, so people don't throw away resources on the first stages only to be greeted by an impassable brick wall.

  7. #17
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    At level 57, the problem I have is being asked to run adventures such as First or Second Thief. At this level it is really tough to get these adventures on my own, and very hard to run on my own. It reminds me of the guild quests that required cannons when the we couldn't even make cannons. I realize this forces us to depend on our guild and Trade, but I don't feel those actions should be a requirement for completion of the Weekly Challenge.

    The other issue I see is the whole "Heart of the Wood" issue. Making a Challenge that requires an Adventure with a 1% drop rate is not sustainable. All the more so if more that one is required.

    The Challenge should be do-able with reasonable effort. Some of these requirements are unreasonable in my opinion.

  8. #18
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    1) By making the weekly so time consuming you acknowledge some may not be able to do. How do people get the tokens to upgrade their housing if they do not do these? How does this idea make it fun for all if they can NOT participate and get some of the same rewards? Why can't you make the challenges so if you complete them in a week you get a bonus and if it takes someone longer they still get tokens just not the bonus.

    2) Adventures. Only one choice? Really???? And then make it either an adventure that is rare and hard to acquire or a co op that you have to be lucky to get 3 other people on at the same time, with the same amount of time as you to play, and one where you are always waiting on someone? And then do these same sucky adventures more than once? The thing with co ops is that people have different speeds of playing so if you get in a co op where you play fairly fast to get through asap and you end up with someone else who takes days to complete, this can cause great amounts of frustration and anger not to mention said slower person could cause others to not reach the time limit goals and thus cause others to spend all those expensive resources and get nothing.
    I don't think people have a problem with adventures BUT we need to be able to get them AND be able to do them in our own time not 3(x2 or x3) other people's time. Think how fun it is when you want to do something or go somewhere and you have that one friend or family member that takes foooorrrrrever to "get with the program". Once in a while and if you don't have time constraints is still frustrating but people can handle, but when you add time constraints - GGGGRRRRRR!!!!!

    3) Constant crisis mode - not fun. Creating opportunity for something more to do for those who have the time - understandable. Not being able to get something, to help improve your island, because you do NOT have time or ability while seeing others get it - not fun. Creating a challenge and something to work for - understandable. I'm not understanding why you want to stress people out 365 days a year.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elgin View Post
    It's not a question of "can't" but more a question of "won't".
    The Challenge was designed purposely to be difficult, time consuming and expensive. They were designed with the idea in mind that not everyone will do them.
    For any given weekly, a person could go all out and get it done, spending thousands of gc to buy adventures, using expensive buffs to speed resource and troop creation, and spending time to manage each task efficiently.

    But it's not something most people want or can do every week. We don't have to guess about this. I'm sure BB will monitor the challenge participation rate. Perhaps 20%, 30%, or 40% is what they are aiming for. I believe the participation rate should, over the course of a month, be more like 80%.




    The reason why everyone should be able to get some tokens is that this game is supposed to be fun, and BB wants people to keep playing it. Getting tokens is cool and should be more accessible to those who have limited time to play, or who have more limited resources.

    It's the balance between challenge and frustration. The current incarnation of Weekly Challenge is tipped too far toward frustration.

    Offering tokens in stages for the Challenge is an easy way to restore a good balance.
    Ok, I can understand won't. People make decisions to do or not to do things in a game depending on whether they consider it is worth it all the time. I won't do these after a certain point in time because the cost/reward ratio won't be worth it for me.

    I am with Kevlaar, there is no need for participation trophies in this. People don't need to get the extra population this way. Those with limited time and unwilling to build up resources or spend them don't need to do this content, it is extra. Not everything in this game has to be adjust so everyone is able to get rewards or enjoys a certain type of content. And in terms of time commitment - other than the adventures these take very little time. You start the buff in the provision house then wait, you send explorers out then wait, you buff any buildings you need to for the resource phase then wait. 10 minutes a day for most of these challenges, other than the adventures which probably take 4 hours a week or so, not excessive at all.

    There would be no challenge to offering tokens in stages and I personally don't see how that would even be fun.

    If you have the adventures most of these challenges can be done within 2 days. If people are getting stuck on a part that should be an indication to them to build up that part of their island so that next time around things will move faster - that is part of the fun you want to remove.

  10. #20
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    as i stated in the previous feedback thread, the problem is that it is farmable for many players in the 46-55 range... or at least it will be when the new guild market rolls out with Heart of the Wood for 270 guild coins. If you make it impossible to start a new one right away, and have all weekly challenges starting on the same day every week, then it may still cost a lot more for a high level player to collect tokens, but if he chooses to do so, he can get more per week.

    in the long term it may also be smart to vary the specific adventures required a bit as well, just to keep from having a serious market imbalance. It's fine that we high levels need to clear something such as 3 ToWs or a Besieged City, but when those specific adventures are being pushed on all of us over and over, they will become too rare within a month or two. Maybe if epidemic were to complete 3 adventures out of: "ToW and ToK" and perhaps Town Construction were modified to include both Sinbad adventures. Unless I'm mistaken, ToK and Sea Snake currently get played less than ToW and Besieged City, so this would help alleviate some of that long-term shortage as well as getting those adventures some face time too.

    it's hard for me to assess exactly how to implement this for lower level brackets because I'm not playing in them, but perhaps the 56-65 players could be given a choice between two different thief advs for the related challenges, or perhaps one of those challenges should be multiple runs at either 2nd or 3rd thief, and the other a single run at something like ToW or ToK. anyway, those are my thoughts.

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