[Feedback] Dev Notes Weekly Challenges

[RonEmpire]

I finally had time to add my input BB_Alex! What is wrong with you? I mean you make us a ship, you make a weekly challenge, but why haven't you created some simple text when we hover over the (locked task) where it says "(the following conditions need to be met to unlock this quest)". What conditions?
All you really need to do is write in some text even if this is locked, stating what is required to do this step! I find this weekly challenge to be more of a gamble, then of a challenge! I added some screen shots to further help you fully grasp the epic fail you created. I don't want to gamble! I just want to know in advance what all steps are required before I start the first one, thats all I ask.
Ttotally idiotic for me to only be able to see whats required; only when that task is before me;
Please gives us all details so we can make an educated choice before starting, thank you.

Yup. It's really bad when you have to google and find out what the requirements are for the quest chain. I saw some co-op adventures required and decided I'm not going to bother with any of the quest steps for the entire chain. It's a waste of resources and time to complete a quest and then realized you're not going to complete the entire chain.

They should also consider giving out tokens for each of the quest steps. In this way, at least some of the quests gives a few tokens rather than nothing at all when you can't complete the final one because of an adventure requirement block.


ALL Co-OP adventures need to be REMOVED from the challenges. This is a MUST.

All adventures that are needed for a quest needs to be available for map fragment or provided to us (after completing a certain quest step. You're already asking us to pay X resources which by the way is ridiculous (especially for high level players), so GIVING us an adventure map should be the cost of purchase those maps basically.)

[Raega]

Yup. It's really bad when you have to google and find out what the requirements are for the quest chain. I saw some co-op adventures required and decided I'm not going to bother with any of the quest steps for the entire chain. It's a waste of resources and time to complete a quest and then realized you're not going to complete the entire chain.

They should also consider giving out tokens for each of the quest steps. In this way, at least some of the quests gives a few tokens rather than nothing at all when you can't complete the final one because of an adventure requirement block.


ALL Co-OP adventures need to be REMOVED from the challenges. This is a MUST.

All adventures that are needed for a quest needs to be available for map fragment or provided to us (after completing a certain quest step. You're already asking us to pay X resources which by the way is ridiculous (especially for high level players), so GIVING us an adventure map should be the cost of purchase those maps basically.)

you're just full of demands aren't you? maybe instead of demanding they remove coops, you should make a few friends. If you dont want a quest that asks for resources, or requires you to get and complete an adventure, or include any coop adventures even if they are freely available, then it sounds to me like you don't want a quest... you just want to run an adventure, so go do that.

We should be expected to spend some amount of time and resources to complete these tasks, and it would be catastrophic to the economy to just start handing out ToWs and Thief adventures. What SHOULD be changed in that regard is that we should have more options over which specific adventures to complete for the quests, so that we don't end up with extreme shortages of the few adventures being required. Additionally, these should be reworked to fit their name "Weekly Challenge" in that you should only be able to get/complete one challenge per week. Currently there are players clearing 5 or more of these during a week, and once Heart of the Wood goes into the guild market in a month, almost every level 55 player will be able to do 4+ per week without trouble.

the scenarios should be available for map fragments, the adventures should include more variation, and the weekly challenges should only be given ONCE PER WEEK.

I would also like to have the weekly challenge be 1 per week, instead of having another one popping up as soon as i finish. I have this horrible quirk that I must work on quests, which makes it difficult for me to complete my personal goals.

I share this quirk, and have also pointed out why this needs to be changed from a game balance perspective

[mcboooooooooo]

Sorry if this has been answered already but there are to many long wind question and thoughts. i simply ask are the drop rates of adv like 1st thief 2nd thief 3 thief and besaiged city and ToW going to be upped to drop more adv that are needed

[Gwalben]

The problem is that these are follow ups to follow ups. The drop rates themselves are not bad. Maybe just make it a 100% chance to get something, effectively doubling the drop rates, but the selection of adventures is weak.

[Aurboth]

One of the main problems of the weekly quests may be a difference in vision between what the players expected and the developers, shown by BB_Alex's post. Rather than referring to the quests as weekly challenges, they are labelled as "Weekly Crisis Quests". As a crisis quest, the idea of doing two or three difficult to obtain adventures is a more reasonable proposition. Even the item donations may be considered reasonable when thought of as a crisis quest and it was common for players not to know the next step of the quest until someone else pushed ahead to complete it. For example, the most recent crisis quest required level 56-65 player to: produce at least 7,500 brew, pay 12,500 bread, pay 15,000 brew, pay 6,000 sausage, produce 750 advanced paper, make 100 of 2 buffs, find 6 gold deposits, find 9 iron deposits, have 7,500 map frags, have 7 level 5 iron mines, and have 5 level 5 gold mines - for just the first week. This is not out of line with the week quest.

However, unlike the crisis quest, this is a weekly event. Furthermore, with the method used for timing the quests, you receive another crisis as soon as you complete the current quest, as opposed to a manditory break until the next crisis is ready to start. While players may enjoy doing the events as a crisis, it does not take long for players to realize that the crisis will never stop. In the real world, this causes burnout; the same will happen with players, resulting in either not attempting the quests or simply leaving the game. Players are already experiencing the beginning of this as they realize that this level of difficulty is never going to end and they will not be able to maintain the level of play needed to gain tokens to a reasonable extent.

One difference between these weekly crisis quests and the previous ones is the level of reward. In the last crisis event, there were additional rewards beyond experience given for each individual section, such as buffs,resources, or gems; the complete quest line gave a building. The weekly crisis quests give less experience and no additional rewards. While the tokens to expand population buildings are a nice idea, they have a relatively low value in comparison and become almost unobtainable when the quests cannot be completed.

There are some easy changes that will reduce some of the problems. First, rather than force completion within a week, make one week the minimum time needed to get another quest, with a "waiting quest" slot. This will make the weekly quests more in line with the daily quests and allow people to complete some of the harder to complete quests. And do not forget to make them deletable, just as the daily quests are. It will also prevent players from getting the burn-out of constantly starting new quests with a time limit. Second, modify the token drops to make more incremental and increase the total dropped to adjust for the slower maximum completion rate.

[Narasn]

One of the main problems of the weekly quests may be a difference in vision between what the players expected and the developers, shown by BB_Alex's post. Rather than referring to the quests as weekly challenges, they are labelled as "Weekly Crisis Quests". As a crisis quest, the idea of doing two or three difficult to obtain adventures is a more reasonable proposition. Even the item donations may be considered reasonable when thought of as a crisis quest and it was common for players not to know the next step of the quest until someone else pushed ahead to complete it. For example, the most recent crisis quest required level 56-65 player to: produce at least 7,500 brew, pay 12,500 bread, pay 15,000 brew, pay 6,000 sausage, produce 750 advanced paper, make 100 of 2 buffs, find 6 gold deposits, find 9 iron deposits, have 7,500 map frags, have 7 level 5 iron mines, and have 5 level 5 gold mines - for just the first week. This is not out of line with the week quest.

However, unlike the crisis quest, this is a weekly event. Furthermore, with the method used for timing the quests, you receive another crisis as soon as you complete the current quest, as opposed to a manditory break until the next crisis is ready to start. While players may enjoy doing the events as a crisis, it does not take long for players to realize that the crisis will never stop. In the real world, this causes burnout; the same will happen with players, resulting in either not attempting the quests or simply leaving the game. Players are already experiencing the beginning of this as they realize that this level of difficulty is never going to end and they will not be able to maintain the level of play needed to gain tokens to a reasonable extent.

One difference between these weekly crisis quests and the previous ones is the level of reward. In the last crisis event, there were additional rewards beyond experience given for each individual section, such as buffs,resources, or gems; the complete quest line gave a building. The weekly crisis quests give less experience and no additional rewards. While the tokens to expand population buildings are a nice idea, they have a relatively low value in comparison and become almost unobtainable when the quests cannot be completed.

There are some easy changes that will reduce some of the problems. First, rather than force completion within a week, make one week the minimum time needed to get another quest, with a "waiting quest" slot. This will make the weekly quests more in line with the daily quests and allow people to complete some of the harder to complete quests. And do not forget to make them deletable, just as the daily quests are. It will also prevent players from getting the burn-out of constantly starting new quests with a time limit. Second, modify the token drops to make more incremental and increase the total dropped to adjust for the slower maximum completion rate.

Stopping doing this at some point is intended. It isn't burnout to stop, just a decision that the effort/cost isn't worth the reward. And I actually like the design of being able to complete one right after another - it suits the play style of some people and maybe doesn't of others but the same thing would happen with a change to this, you would just trade groups of people who like it and those that don't.

And I really don't see a problem with labeling them as challenges - I don't see them as a crisis. There is no story indicating a crisis which is what the crisis event had.

They aren't hard to do within a one week period IF you have the adventures, in fact I did all four the first week and I might have been able to do a fifth if I had wanted to.

I saw a new player complain on global chat about this game handholding them at the start. It isn't a good thing to have everything so structured because people can make reasonable decisions (i.e in this case to just not do them), by themselves.

[ghannima]

Very good post, Aurboth, thank you.
I took the liberty to quote you on test forum, I hope it's ok.

https://forum.tsotesting.com/threads...0577#post50577

[Gwalben]

Nicely put. I'd do this once for the right rewards. I wouldn't do this once every week.

[Raega]

One of the main problems of the weekly quests may be a difference in vision between what the players expected and the developers, shown by BB_Alex's post. Rather than referring to the quests as weekly challenges, they are labelled as "Weekly Crisis Quests". As a crisis quest, the idea of doing two or three difficult to obtain adventures is a more reasonable proposition. Even the item donations may be considered reasonable when thought of as a crisis quest and it was common for players not to know the next step of the quest until someone else pushed ahead to complete it. For example, the most recent crisis quest required level 56-65 player to: produce at least 7,500 brew, pay 12,500 bread, pay 15,000 brew, pay 6,000 sausage, produce 750 advanced paper, make 100 of 2 buffs, find 6 gold deposits, find 9 iron deposits, have 7,500 map frags, have 7 level 5 iron mines, and have 5 level 5 gold mines - for just the first week. This is not out of line with the week quest.

However, unlike the crisis quest, this is a weekly event. Furthermore, with the method used for timing the quests, you receive another crisis as soon as you complete the current quest, as opposed to a manditory break until the next crisis is ready to start. While players may enjoy doing the events as a crisis, it does not take long for players to realize that the crisis will never stop. In the real world, this causes burnout; the same will happen with players, resulting in either not attempting the quests or simply leaving the game. Players are already experiencing the beginning of this as they realize that this level of difficulty is never going to end and they will not be able to maintain the level of play needed to gain tokens to a reasonable extent.

One difference between these weekly crisis quests and the previous ones is the level of reward. In the last crisis event, there were additional rewards beyond experience given for each individual section, such as buffs,resources, or gems; the complete quest line gave a building. The weekly crisis quests give less experience and no additional rewards. While the tokens to expand population buildings are a nice idea, they have a relatively low value in comparison and become almost unobtainable when the quests cannot be completed.

There are some easy changes that will reduce some of the problems. First, rather than force completion within a week, make one week the minimum time needed to get another quest, with a "waiting quest" slot. This will make the weekly quests more in line with the daily quests and allow people to complete some of the harder to complete quests. And do not forget to make them deletable, just as the daily quests are. It will also prevent players from getting the burn-out of constantly starting new quests with a time limit. Second, modify the token drops to make more incremental and increase the total dropped to adjust for the slower maximum completion rate.

I agree with pretty much all of this.

Also i think the devs need to look at some of the cost:reward ratios for higher levels. There are a few ways they could keep the time/effort requirements without making tokens so incredible unaffordable. First is obviously "Delegate Troops." This step really ought to be replaced with some kind of adventure that will use the troops. Additionally, the produce/donate resources step... I understand that it's meant to slow players down by making them produce large amounts of things like granite, book fittings, and gunpowder. The problem is that this step is also asking that we PAY twice as much, which is an unreasonable amount. High level players are being asked to delegate more than 10x as many normal troops on top of even more elite-barracks time worth of elite troops and pay 3 times as much of the same resources on top of some higher level resources.


Again, we understand that this is scaled to avoid making it too easy to click through quickly. However, the actual amount of resources spent to acquire each token is INSANE in the 66+ level range. Seriously... someone at BB needs to sit down and add up the cost in terms of resources and barracks-hours (used for delegated troops, not adventuring requirements) and balance them out so the effective cost per token is a little more consistent.

Level 46-55 players are completing their "challenges" daily, and are farming over 100 tokens a week at a lower cost both in resources AND in time than my collecting 50 tokens

[Perwyn]

Not trying to be argumentative Raega, but this thought occurred to me after reading your post.

Yes, 46-55 players are racking up more tokens, more easily and are therefore able to upgrade pop buildings faster than higher levels.

At the same time tho, players at levels 60+ are racking up more granite and grout than levels 46-55.

Since tokens, granite, and grout are all used to do upgrades of buildings, there is a sort of balance there, since higher levels can more easily do upgrades requiring granite and grout for production buildings & barracks.

Would I have wanted to be able to farm tokens at level 46-55 like they are ? You bet! But I can't so, Oh well, I'll keep using that granite and grout to take production to level 6.

Just another angle to look at it from.