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Thread: Accuracy and Damage questions

  1. #1
    Settler
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    Accuracy and Damage questions

    I've been trying to figure this out and in numerous places people have said that the damage range of a unit is not really a range at all, but rather it's an either/or option. So in the unit notes, where a recruit is said to do 15 - 30 damage, he doesn't actually do any damage between 15 or 30; He only does either 15 damage, or 30 damage. Is this really correct? It seems to me that if that's the case, the notes should read "15, 30" rather than "15-30". How have people verified that this is the case?

  2. #2
    Mayor Perwyn's Avatar
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    Interesting question. I agree with what you've already heard in the sense that treating it as an either/or propostion for the sake of calculations works every time.

    If you have 100 recruits doing 15-30 dmg at 80% accuracy, 80 will hit for 30 & 20 will hit for 15 for a maximum total of 2700 damage, altho it can be less which is how you get the variations in min/max losses.

    One could imagine that within that 2700 max damage each recruit does do a variable range of damage, just never exceeding the 2700 in total. I don't know how you'd ever figure out what's "really" happening. Would probably have to equip all recruits with Hit-o-meter(TM) devices to get an accurate reading.
    "Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking." ~ Marcus Aurelius

  3. #3
    Veteran General
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    It is either min or max dmg, no ranges in between.
    To verify that, you'd need to be bored and throw a handful Gens with 1R or whatever at a Stinky boss, aka something with enough HP to survive but a single unit to see it's actual HP (or something number manageable in that regard which you can keep track).

    Deduct the 120 dmg from the general and get the value your 1R did. Rinse and repeat until you are satisfied.

    Important for this calculation are: keeping values low and as many numbers as possible guaranteed
    - as few as possible units on your side, well, 1 essentially
    - your general, preferrably an unskilled Taverns/BHG/Vets since they do 120dmg regardless and you have a certain value in your equation. MMA and others are a bad choice due to dmg range and accuracy. No Gens with dmg modifier to unit you are bringing or General Special Abilities.
    - enemy has enough HP to cover your 120 general dmg + the unit you are sending (30 for R) so you'd want an enemy with at least 150HP. Single Stinky boss is a great one or Uproarious Bull (remember to bring 1R so 1 can soak and die on first phase)

  4. #4
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    Why don't we begin at the start.
    After all, we can't very well begin at the middle, then than would become the start and the end would become the middle.
    If we started at the end, you wouldn't know where to start.

    Let's begin.

    Yes it is either or.
    no it us not minus as indicated by "-".
    However, that is just formatting. We can apply the word "to" in place of the dash, and we then understand the damage to be a range.
    This is not entirely accurate, but does convey the context of how the battle system is applied.
    If you were to display a damage value as "30,50".
    I do think that would be more confusing to most.
    30 or 50, well which is it?
    Where a new player can look at "30-50" and apply a basic understanding of 30 to 50 damage being applied, and learn the battle system around that understanding.
    When in actuality, the system works as 30 OR 50.
    Otherwise how would it work?
    How do you calculate an individual damage applied for every unit? And then have to accomadate for "splash".
    nah. nah.
    Basics.
    One or the other.

    So how?
    Accuracy. As noted. 80% on a recruit means there is a 80% to deal the higher cap.
    This is rolled individually to unit.
    So this is where statisticians understand what is going on.
    And the rest look on with wonder.

    To send 100 rec with 80% accuracy with a range of 25-50.

    Does not mean 80 will hit for 50.
    (20*25)+(80*50)
    That is a false assumption and a common misconception.
    Each individual 1 of the 100 receives an 80% chance roll at 50.
    What does that actually mean?

    Well, 100 rec will hit for a minumum of 2,500. That much we know.
    We know that they could hit up to a limit of 5,000.
    How much is actually going to hit?
    Well, let's look at a couple rolls.

    Wherein 50 rec achieve + damage.
    = +50% to min.
    2500 * 1.5 = 3750
    then reduced, 3750/100 = 37.5
    Did any recruit hit for 37.5 damage? no.
    But when the damage is applied and we compare the damage per 1. His damage fits within the 30 to 50 range.

    What if.. .75 of the rec hit + ?
    (75*50) + (25*25) = 4375 total or 43.75 per 1.

    Again. Not a single recruit hit for 43.75 damage. But when sent in a mass, each of your recruits hit for a value of 43.75.
    Nice.

    "Accuracy" in battle context is the variable which controls the consistency of hitting the limit of the range.
    Where in any given battle, however many units sent being X.
    damage output / X reveals the comparative damage of a single unit, which will not exceed his own limit.
    Comparatively. If recruit and militia had the same damage range of 25-50.
    Where recruit holds accuracy of 60% and militia accuracy of 80%.
    Both unit types would share the range of 2,500-5,000. Though militia would hold a higher average.
    Sending 100 units of each type will result in a unique outcome every time. No two 100 unit simulations will be the same.
    Though if simulated under these conditions enough times, we would confirm the trend that militia have a consistantly higher base output.
    Given enough data sets.
    There may be individual cases where militia miss their higher rolls, and recruits win all their outperforming.
    So there is no "exact" answer to how much damage you will do.
    At best you know the "minimum and limit".

    The Chance aspect, is accuracy.
    Can you fix it?
    Sure.
    YGG applies +% accuracy bonus to all units. So each of his units gain their own +10% chance to apply their best case damage.

    Simplified.

    in a data set.
    Finding coins on the street. I find 5 coins valued at 5 cents.
    5, 5, 5, 5, 5.
    What is the mean?
    5+5+5+5+5=25
    divide by number of items in the set
    25/5=5
    Each individual coin averages a value of 5.

    Next set.
    Finding.
    3 nickels 2 dimes.
    Or as in our context, either or. Left or right. One value or the other. 5 or 10. 5-10.
    5+5+5+10+10 = 35 / 5= 7.
    So each of the coins is worth 7 cents. Right? wait.. what?
    Yup.

    But a nickel cannot be worth 7 cents.. and a dime is not worth 7 cents..
    oh I know.
    But. When I found these coins, there value is 5-10. That is my min max range.
    Despite what the odds are of finding dimes over nickels, I resulted in 2 fifths of the set being 200% value.
    Back tot he battle system.
    I do not care what individual recruits do. I do not care if they are nickels or dimes. I only care that I get as many dimes as possible.
    I can see that in this last example, each coin is worth 7 cents.
    Just as how a recruit with a damage value of 25-50 is in fact a range value.
    Not just an either or.
    But it is an either or.
    It is just not only an either or.
    It is an either or, and a range.

    Depending on your understanding and interpretation.
    Just as you can understand.
    "Don't drive through a red light" And get by.
    You do not have to understand "Don't drive through a red light, or you will get hurt.".
    Minimal information here is expressed to convey meaning without requiring a deeper understanding from newer players.

    ...Let's not forget that units can also have splash... what is splash anyway? Well. Not the topic title of this discussion so I'll leave the complexity here.

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