Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: maps that can be completed without troops.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2013

    maps that can be completed without troops.

    sleepy reef ROFA and then a BA on the final camp
    the dark brotherhood Ballista Assassin, Weak Point Potion Weak Point Potion all on final camp
    gunpowder ROFA, BA, BA all on final camp
    ali baba second thief choco arrows on dock camp. ROFA on each of the other 4 leader camps. finish off with cupid arrows. will need 1-6.

    ok now its your turn. what other adventures can be done with just buffs?
    is there a battle simulator that allows buffs so we can test these maps and find more?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    ontario, canada

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    ok, found another one.
    Scarred Thief Ballista Assassin
    Mysterious Thief Ballista Assassin Rain Of Flaming Arrows
    Greedy Thief Ballista Assassin Rain Of Flaming Arrows
    Boulder Worm Rain Of Flaming Arrows
    Giant Bat Ballista Assassin Rain Of Flaming Arrows
    Shrewd Thief, Silly Thief Rain Of Flaming Arrows

  4. #4
    Noble Droidhak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    An alternative for Gunpowder is BA ROFA, maybe a cupid if needed

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2014

    Here are my details for GP and DB.

    GP is fairly detailed. I have mastered the absolute cheapest cost routes and are able to open the map with ROA or ROFA application. Both are valid.

    DB requires more skill. There is a specific outcome which allows use of -1 WPP to base cost.
    Base being BAL AS WPP WPP.
    You are able to have Player 1 drop Bal.
    P2 and P3 do AS WPP.
    As player 1 return to map to investigate.
    If the remaining camp is SS these are the lowest HP unit which can be removes via ROFA or ROA(RS). This conserves WPP to allow play longevity in this map.
    I have developed multiple master level routes for this map. If you want to learn them play with me directly and I will detail the nuance.
    Here is my submissions for DB.
    I have posted comment as to why this run is important.
    "I must note the intent of this run is strictly to obtain oilseed.
    During events which hold triple loot output this turns 150/300 into 450/900 *1.5 for drops of 675 or 1350 oilseed per adv.
    With 30% drop rate favoring top end we can average 900~1000 oilseed per adventure over large numbers.

    To spend such cost outside of this makes no sense. But to spend such little time to farm oilseed in the thousands within an hour is unmatched through any other means."

    Valentines just happens to be one of few instances where we are able to obtain triple loot output. So this will be the time of year when you want to run all the DB you can within these windows.

    Here is Third thief.
    I don't think you can find this public.

    Pay that exact cost, it is fair and fine to do so during events. 0 complaints from me doing this.
    However, I prefer my personal run.
    Use the above mentions to remove the final 2 bosses.
    This will cost 2 ROFA, 1 AS, 1 BAL. The front end you can clear from landing zone using Boris/OGG/Resolute.
    Observatory, Vortex, get to map fast. Send all your attacks to 4 separate boss camps from your landing.
    There is enough space and forced delay where you can about stream all of your necessary attacks without waiting any more than neccesary.
    Once final attacks are sent you've got some minutes to go manage home island and return to a completed map.
    This requires 2 Vargus to clear the final camps in your way, otherwise you must be aware of an OGG alternate attack to remove either of these intercepting camps.
    This cuts your overall run time to less than half of what natural run should be.
    Admitting to losing potential XP on kills via buff. The trade off is completing more Third thief runs per play hour within event. This directly translates to TOW maps, beans, grout, loot is still doubled. And we are moving on to our next map at better pace.

    3 separate guides combined to achieve the best clear time. Does not take much to commit a few OGG attacks to memory and play off 2.
    I have all 3 in memory. I just click click through. Done.

    Roaring bull. This is a big shortcut.

    Host your map, send your gens and find 2 players immediately.
    P2 and 3 spend ROA+RS on camp 9. The center witch tower.
    This allows you to move up in place in that celtic cross where you are able to strike in both directions.
    Note that careful position and attack speed of camps to the west.
    YGG is inneffective in most of these camps. Due to the unique position of these camps, you are able to attack the northside and reach the witch tower while skipping 1 camp.
    This means that you need to place your loner/Boris tappers on the topside of this cross and have them attack west while your YGG and others attack eastward.
    Done correctly you will be able to clear map with 0 unit loss and minimal time invested.
    Why would a player want to do this?
    For the loot table.
    As a mid level player this grants you near full XP value from the map.
    A chance at a witch tower. Chance at granite and exo logs. 2 items that you need to get yourself through that mid level of tiering up.
    Where else are you gonna grab 1k granite at a time? This is as good as anything else.
    Except witch tower is better than dark castle.

    Players are too liberal with CA. Cupid arrow.
    It costs a full crystal to make 1 arrow.
    But crystals make you gems. You cannot spend crystals on arrows and gems at the same time. One or the other right?
    So why are we wasting crystals on arrows instead of on gems?
    If you are putting 6 CA into a second thief just to instant it. What are you getting out of that?
    You gonna take the oilseed and make crystal shards and then crystals? That's a loss.
    The loot value is super low grout. Not justified there.
    You get lessened XP from buff kills. So it isn't that.
    Would you spend 100 gems to clear a map fast? I'd rather have the 100 gems.
    There is a time and a place for CA and I have a specific and long argument for what that is.
    A rare case in GP and only for the specific reasoning of play longevity.
    When 2 RS can do what 1 CA would do you will have to argue to me why spending a crystal is a good investment overall.
    Looking at the above DB and how rare and expensive it is to run.
    You have to consider the gains of each DB to be 1 crystal each.
    You seriously want to grind away the expense of 6 DB under triple loot just to throw it away in a 2T? What a horrible waste.
    The whole reason we are doing DB is because it can be done within 5 minutes per.
    So you are legit able to grind 12k+ oilseed per hour in this method. Tell me anything else that matches or comes close to that.
    If 1500 oilseed produces 10 shards and 1 shards to 1 crystal.
    We are looking at pulling in 8 crystals per hour under DB. This under chance over large numbers has a high % chance of paying you approx 80-100 gem value per play hour under DB.
    This outpaces Gem pit which is 1 per 13 min. 2 hours to produce 100.
    Look at fallen star. 1 shard per hour. DB outpaces everything you have to take advantage of that gem crawl.
    If not then you have no reason or right to complain about gem pricing on bundles because you are not doing your part.
    Don't be throwing these gems away in the form of CA.
    There can be direct value in applying CA to GP in event in the case where event resources are dropped from GP.
    If you are spending CA to clear GP it should only be when you are going to profit from it. Know what you are getting from this.
    GP does not pay you oilseed to compensate the CA.
    of 1500 oilseed used per arrow we do receive some compensation in the form of fertilizer.
    In applying 2 fert over yourself you will receive +154 per 12 for 24 hour. meaning 300 oilseed compensated in delay per CA applied, total cost reduced to 1200.
    Not anything exciting, but technically notable.
    The thing to note is that this 2 fert outcome is static. In event, out of event, double or triple loot. doesn't matter. You will get 2 fert per completion.
    In 300 oilseed produced per GP completion, we need 5 completions to negate cost of CA.
    This means you can apply CA at no more than 1:4 to any other arrow type.
    For every 5 GP you are in, you can only afford to spend 1 CA.
    CA are only spent in ROA open. And ROA open are applied when ROFA are not available.
    It is purely to extend playability. While you endure dampened gains by utilizing CA, you are in fact generating a net positive loot for 2 additional players who benefit from the GP completion.
    In the end, if enough players are applying CA at random at appropriate times. This diminished return is compensated for in all the times you benefit as P3 putting in the lowest cost. In the end it works out for you just as much as it works out for somebody else. Just do not be the one overpaying in CA. Use them only when it matters.

    There is no combat sim that includes arrows. That's not.. they don't..
    players do not understand how arrows work.
    They do not deal flat dmg, they deal percentile dmg on an array.
    It takes experience and practice to get a feel for how powerful buffs are so that you can build an intuition on their capability.
    The best bet for that is practicing GP as cheaply as possible.
    P2 is the deciding position in that run. P1 drops ROFA or ROA, nothing to think about.
    P2 however has to deal enough damage to leave a remainder for P3 to be able to clear up in a single shot.
    To do this you have to understand the buffs well enough to land it where it needs to be so that P3 can drop a valid buff.
    If you are applying with the idea "good enough" in your head. get out of my speedruns.
    I will not be inviting you back because you are actually in the way. These are very specific runs that require very specific drops. And I want them done in a timely manner. Do it right or get out of the way. So I suggest just learning how to do it right.
    Ask questions. But also practice.

    When GP matters I will be running 100 copies a day. You have no excuse to not be able to join in and play them alongside me and others.
    If you can master P2 in GP you will then be able to apply that understanding to other maps and know where shortcuts are available.

    The best shortcut of all is catapult.
    Found freely via GB or diligent.
    Now look at Misty cake. Top map of the game.
    I will buy your copies, just send me the direct trade. I'll pay 50kc per map. However many copies. I'll take em all. Send trades.
    This is a 9 camp map. Tiny. More importantly though, these leaders are not leader camps. They are active as "medium" camp. This means they can be wiped out by a single large catapult.
    Look closely, and you notice that all 3 iterations of camp 8 are of a single unit type. This means to prolong your catapult you may sub in 1 AS(WPP).
    Instant clear within 3 minutes of launch.
    Why? Loot table.
    Slot 1-4 150 Obsidian (1%)
    (0.5%) Frozen Manor
    (0.5%) Large river house
    (0.5%) Small river house
    1% is not nothing, it is higher than 0 so you have to take that for what it is.
    Understand that when you complete 80 runs of Misty cake that eventually you will see a single run that drops 3 individual obsidian drops.
    Triple loot + prem.
    150*3= 450 *1.5=675 = 1:4.5 ratio
    But you do not have to go full speed. I do because XP means nothing to me.
    The best thing to do is take advantage of the final camp.

    With properly teched Tremble, you can utilize taps to single out the bear boss. This bear unit alone is valued at 300k XP.
    Apply event bonus + prem + SP
    3*1.5*1.5=6.75 Xp factor. 300,000*6.75 2,025,000M XP for single unit kill.
    You can spend 7 catapult, 1 AS. Then position yourself to tap and clear final boss.
    That will take you well under a half hour. Should be 20 minutes or less. And 2M XP. What other maps give you that high of XP and how long do they take?
    This high speed XP gain is unmatched. No other map comes remotely close to this XP per hour.

    My speedruns make mention of *3 events. Notice that? Yeah.
    Take notes.
    As for ROA. +8 per 24 hour from siege workshop.
    If there are 40 days between an event launch, I can make 320 ROA to be spent on GP.
    That does not count my ROA produce from Arch, Dili or GB. Does not count the ROFA I have ready to use.
    Not every ROA open requires a CA. They can be cleared with RS BT.
    So yes. I do actually want to participate in 900 copies of GP per event.
    Why not?
    I can afford 300 hosted on ROA. I can P2 or P3 in 300.
    I can afford 300 Rofa open. That's 900. What's hard about that?
    But we only have 21 days to do that. So we gotta pull 43+ per day.
    How is that hard? You tell me. A GP only takes 3 to 5 minutes. 12 an hour.
    Can partake in 2 at a time. 24 an hour. 2 hours is overkill.
    You cant giving an event day 2 hours? If you only had 2 hours to spend GP is your best target.
    3~6 refill base. 1:4.5 13.5~27 Capped Per 10 135~270 refill per 100 1350~2700 per 1000 13500~27000
    Now factor your refills through farm.
    1:8 output with PFB and RS that's your base.
    1:22 on LT
    1:11 on SG
    In TO players are idiots and undervalue drastically at 1:3.0 or less.
    No matter how much training I give I cannot raise stupidity.
    There are players who understand basic math and know refills should sell @ 1:7.
    Anybody who listens to me for 5 minutes can see the obvious reason why. It's not hard if you actually understand this game at all.
    But MOST people. Are going to undervalue refills and sell them for far less than they should so you will only be able to sell for market average.
    The nice thing of this is taking 13.5k and getting 1:3 still is worth 40k flowers. It should just be worth double that.
    A full clear out of merchant is gonna run you over 100k event resource per event.
    And because of stupidity and not understanding value. I get about half the flowers from adventures that I should, so have to run twice as much.
    Very frustrating. And all the more reason I have to run 50 GP a day. Not because of true value. but because of players devaluing.
    Git gud.

    I have documents all written up about how to evaluate your gains per hour in terms of XP and in terms of loot.
    This refers to a document which lists the base XP value of every adventure.
    And link to sort order of loot from every adventure.
    This will help you to determine where to best apply your time based on your desired outcome.
    Being able to identify which maps will grant you the best variety in both XP and loot will be your best value by far.
    until of course XP means nothing, at which point you will pivot to 100% resource focus.
    If you want more docs and details you gotta hit me up. Given away enough secret sauce here.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2023
    Hi there! Thank you for sharing your details for GP and DB. I appreciate your expertise and skill in these adventures. You have clearly mastered the cheapest and most efficient routes to clear the maps and obtain the best loot. I’m impressed by your use of ROA and ROFA to conserve WPP and remove SS camps. Your submission for Third Thief is also very helpful and I like how you use Boris/OGG/Resolute to clear the front end.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Add split city in the fall. I ran this solo and with nuke partner duing event, 3-4 mil exp. I did not record the details.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    You can complete ANY adventure that requires killing bandits by using just nukes.

    I just completed People of the Mountain and A Giant Battle using only Ballista, ROFA and Cupid arrows to complete achievements.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Agreed with Number99799

    Depending on number of units in a camp, I came up with following two charts which can guide anyone on any map, probability of clearing the camp with given combination of nukes.
    RoFA = Rain Of Flaming Arrows
    RoA = Rain Of Arrows
    RS = Ranged Support
    Q = Cupid
    BT = Black Tree

    Ideally, if you really wanted to optimize the number of nukes used, you'd always reference the chart based on number of troops currently left in the camp, even if you started with a much longer sequence of nukes to use for a large camp. I'll be happy to answer any questions one might have, and edit this post accordingly to make it more clear.

    First - If you are using nuke, which can only be used once on a camp.

    Second - If you are using nuke, which can only be used multiple times on a camp.

Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts